Clearly it is not respect they are looking for, except in the sense that one respects the capabilities of a skunk or a porcupine.
Fear is more like it.
A child that throws tantrums to get what it wants doesn’t earn respect. It is rather the fear of embarrassment or damage that leads the parent to yield and reward the behaviour.
I would suspect that a major factor is a ‘holier than thou’ competition amongst the faithful rioters. Each is trying to gain status over the others by ever more fanatic actions.
I agree with you all, but I also think that muslims are in a pretty delicate situation (Im not trying to justify their acts)…you should look up the song “Intifada” by Ska-P…it’s in spanish, but there must be some english translation somewhere…it pretty much says everything I think of muslims (theology aside)
It’s kind of dumb to rely on a ska song to make one’s mind on what’s happening in the Middle East, oh, and Spaniards are some of the worst antisemites ever.
In 1958, Ralph Galloway, former UNWRA (Palestinians have a whole UN agency for themselves) director wrote:
βThe Arab states do not want to solve the refugee problem. They want to keep it as an open sore, as an affront to the United Nations, and as a weapon against Israel. Arab leaders do not give a damn whether Arab refugees live or die.β
Google “black September in Jordan” or “Palestinian Expulsion from Kuwait”
“Although education was one of the fields in which UNRWA was supposed to provide aid, the agency did nothing to alter Palestinian educational texts that glorified violence and continuing war against Israel.”15 According to Gold, there are posters of martyrs on the walls of the schools and in the homes of UNRWA staff. Worse still, UNRWA workers are essentially members of Hamas”
My comment was not addressed to you, it was addressed to =o (comments #2 and #3).
CMOC is an acronym: Cormac Murphy-O’Connor. My intention was to be offensive and I can’t think of anything more offensive than likening someone to the aforementioned deluded, bigoted cretin.
There is another four-letter word beginning with ‘c’ which I could have used. In a recent moment of rage, I used this word to describe CMOC. It was quickly – and correctly – pointed out to me that comparing CMOC to the other word maligns the latter. I stand corrected.
Actually, Satan, in all fairness to the Spaniards they’d largely grown out of the anti-semitic lark by the early 20th century. In the 20s Sephardic jews were given a right of return, which came in useful during the war. I’ve heard stories of Spanish officials actually handing out passports inside concentration camps. Probably the only half-decent thing the Franco regime ever did.
Digression over.
I rather liked Ska-p’s take on things. It reminded me of my old NMA days! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KH6FOrP2Pqw
I rather think some of crits are beside the point. The singer can not be held to be representing all of Spain, he is not attacking Jews, per se, although he does make a link between Israeli policy and religion- not exactly a wild accusation- although clearly not the whole story.
Perhaps those who object could send Ska-p some new verses that talk about the cynical complicity of other Arab nations in fanning the fires of dissent? Maybe they will be included in the remix? I think its a bit much to expect a punk song to be even as well thought out as this one is- it certainly seems rather more thoughtful than the usual pop fare.
He begins by emphasising the irony of Jews, a much attacked group, turning into the oppressors, so no holocaust denying garbage here. Perhaps he is extolling the youthful rebellion aspect of “intifada” a bit, and perhaps if it were me I might want to talk about the exploitation of young Palestinian men for the political aims of their elders, but- hey it’s a punk song not a UN declaration.
Thanks to Mateo for bringing it to our attention.
Oh, and are we going to adopt CMOC as a term of abuse? It would seem to have a lot going for it. It even has that slightly guttural Anglo-Saxon quality that we prize in swear words.
Well the rioters in Greece do have a point , the greek goverment failed to provide tens of thousands of moslems in Athens with a proper burial place and a mosque that is not a basement or a warehouse . A policeman tearing a Coran didnt help.
The politicians saying that Greece is a christian country are much worse.
And flipping cars IS awesome !
Why is it up to the Greek government to ‘provide a mosque’ or a for that matter a burial place? Is Islam suddenly short of cash? And how does tearing up a book justify riots?
CMOC as an epithet – I like it, I really do, but I have to agree with Ophelia it is a tad cryptic. How about bishopric? Maybe add a ‘k’ to the end?
Might be redundant.
Great idea! You’re right, CMOC is too cryptic. Bishop is a much more obvious term of offence. There’s something about Bishop which conjures up images of insanity and malevolence.
I have to say that if you can pick up a car and flip it over all by yourself, I’ll be mighty impressed. Maybe not respectful, but impressed.
On the other hand, I certainly and whole-heartedly respect and especially encourage muslims (and catholics and Co$ and whoever else) who might be inclined to set themselves on fire to do so. So long, of course, as they go the whole distance. Heck, I’ll even sweep up the ashes myself. I say go for it!
wow, I didn’t expect much response to my Ska-p comment.
Satan, I don’t rely on the song to make my mind on the subject, what I mean is that the first time I heard the song I thought “wow, thats pretty much how I feel about Palestine”
Simon, sorry about the misunderstanding, I didn’t realize “=0” was someone (I thought you were expressing surpirse!)
Daoloth, Ska-p has actually a lot of really good lyrics…If you liked it you should look them up (I’m actually no big fan of the band, and the only song that I remember the lyrics from is Intifada…but they have a lot of other good songs!)
As a Greek resident, I should explain some things.
In Greece, there is a significant connection between the Greek Orthodox Church and the state. Among other things, the GOC has a say on whether temples of other faiths get built and where, as well as stewardship over most of the cemetaries (I believe there are a just a few historical catholic and jewish cemetaries) The issue of a mosque in the Athens area is a hotly debated issue, as the muslim population has grown significantly due to immigration.
Regarding the mosque, the Greek state needs to provide the permits for a mosque of a significant aize to accommodate the growing muslim pop. I believe the community has made several proposals that have been struck down,either by the state or blackballed by the GOC.
Until recently over 90% of the population were (at least nominally ) G.O. Xians and it is still the unmentioned assumption if you are Greek & white. While there isn’t a lot of overt racism, its still there. The church has been immersed in the recent centuries of Greek history. We arguably weren’t ready to be a multicultural country. (and its not peachy to be an atheist here either)
“Bishop” as a term of abuse has a certain charm, but there is a danger of being mistaken for protestants. “No Bishops! No Popery!” has been a war-cry since parlimentarian times. Also, is there a danger of angering the local chess club? I reckon we could take those geeks though.
Mercator:
What’s usually at the end of a “bishopric” isn’t a “k”, it’s an altar boy.
Cafeeine:
Do you think that the muslim population has grown significantly due to immigration, or because they are very good at breeding? Been to the
North of France recently?
And to digress a bit, if flipping a car impresses you,
come to California, where people flip houses!
In Greece, the muslim influx was due to immigration, although breeding will become a factor in the coming years. The problem has surfaced in the last 4-5 years, while there has been a muslim minority in Greece, a remnant of the years of the Ottoman empire and the subsequent changes in territories & populations. (We were a lot more mixed before the Greek liberation in the 1820s.) The difference is apparent because the increased Muslim population comes from Pakistan, Afghanistan, Bangladesh etc. and have more integration problems than just their religion. Native Greek Muslims on the other hand have been long neglected by the Greek state, which is unfortunate because they could have been used as a connecting link.
If you have no respect for yourself (and if you believe in any of the Abrahamic religion then you really can’t have any) then you will seek affirmations from others,
fear is a close substitute in form if you avoid looking closely
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Aww yes. Nothing like a good old car flipping to get respect.
first!
damn! ren beat me!
Sounds like a typical day in South Africa. Except here they set other people on fire π
Setting themselves on fire gets lots of respect too. I would like to say I’d really like to respect them?
Clearly it is not respect they are looking for, except in the sense that one respects the capabilities of a skunk or a porcupine.
Fear is more like it.
A child that throws tantrums to get what it wants doesn’t earn respect. It is rather the fear of embarrassment or damage that leads the parent to yield and reward the behaviour.
I would suspect that a major factor is a ‘holier than thou’ competition amongst the faithful rioters. Each is trying to gain status over the others by ever more fanatic actions.
I agree with you all, but I also think that muslims are in a pretty delicate situation (Im not trying to justify their acts)…you should look up the song “Intifada” by Ska-P…it’s in spanish, but there must be some english translation somewhere…it pretty much says everything I think of muslims (theology aside)
=o
Thank you for your valuable contributions. Now go forth and multiply, you stupid CMOC.
I hate it when Jesus is right.
what’s CMOC ??? was that adressed to me?
It’s kind of dumb to rely on a ska song to make one’s mind on what’s happening in the Middle East, oh, and Spaniards are some of the worst antisemites ever.
In 1958, Ralph Galloway, former UNWRA (Palestinians have a whole UN agency for themselves) director wrote:
βThe Arab states do not want to solve the refugee problem. They want to keep it as an open sore, as an affront to the United Nations, and as a weapon against Israel. Arab leaders do not give a damn whether Arab refugees live or die.β
Google “black September in Jordan” or “Palestinian Expulsion from Kuwait”
“Although education was one of the fields in which UNRWA was supposed to provide aid, the agency did nothing to alter Palestinian educational texts that glorified violence and continuing war against Israel.”15 According to Gold, there are posters of martyrs on the walls of the schools and in the homes of UNRWA staff. Worse still, UNRWA workers are essentially members of Hamas”
youtube.com/user/PalestinianWatch
mateo-argentino,
My comment was not addressed to you, it was addressed to =o (comments #2 and #3).
CMOC is an acronym: Cormac Murphy-O’Connor. My intention was to be offensive and I can’t think of anything more offensive than likening someone to the aforementioned deluded, bigoted cretin.
There is another four-letter word beginning with ‘c’ which I could have used. In a recent moment of rage, I used this word to describe CMOC. It was quickly – and correctly – pointed out to me that comparing CMOC to the other word maligns the latter. I stand corrected.
Actually, Satan, in all fairness to the Spaniards they’d largely grown out of the anti-semitic lark by the early 20th century. In the 20s Sephardic jews were given a right of return, which came in useful during the war. I’ve heard stories of Spanish officials actually handing out passports inside concentration camps. Probably the only half-decent thing the Franco regime ever did.
Digression over.
I rather liked Ska-p’s take on things. It reminded me of my old NMA days!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KH6FOrP2Pqw
I rather think some of crits are beside the point. The singer can not be held to be representing all of Spain, he is not attacking Jews, per se, although he does make a link between Israeli policy and religion- not exactly a wild accusation- although clearly not the whole story.
Perhaps those who object could send Ska-p some new verses that talk about the cynical complicity of other Arab nations in fanning the fires of dissent? Maybe they will be included in the remix? I think its a bit much to expect a punk song to be even as well thought out as this one is- it certainly seems rather more thoughtful than the usual pop fare.
He begins by emphasising the irony of Jews, a much attacked group, turning into the oppressors, so no holocaust denying garbage here. Perhaps he is extolling the youthful rebellion aspect of “intifada” a bit, and perhaps if it were me I might want to talk about the exploitation of young Palestinian men for the political aims of their elders, but- hey it’s a punk song not a UN declaration.
Thanks to Mateo for bringing it to our attention.
Oh, and are we going to adopt CMOC as a term of abuse? It would seem to have a lot going for it. It even has that slightly guttural Anglo-Saxon quality that we prize in swear words.
Well the rioters in Greece do have a point , the greek goverment failed to provide tens of thousands of moslems in Athens with a proper burial place and a mosque that is not a basement or a warehouse . A policeman tearing a Coran didnt help.
The politicians saying that Greece is a christian country are much worse.
And flipping cars IS awesome !
Why is it up to the Greek government to ‘provide a mosque’ or a for that matter a burial place? Is Islam suddenly short of cash? And how does tearing up a book justify riots?
You seemok…not bad, but it has the drawback of being cryptic.
How about bishop?! It would be quite funny and appropriate if that became an epithet.
Yes! Thank you author, again you have managed to hit it right on the head!
CMOC as an epithet – I like it, I really do, but I have to agree with Ophelia it is a tad cryptic. How about bishopric? Maybe add a ‘k’ to the end?
Might be redundant.
Ophelia,
Great idea! You’re right, CMOC is too cryptic. Bishop is a much more obvious term of offence. There’s something about Bishop which conjures up images of insanity and malevolence.
I think you could be onto a winner.
I have to say that if you can pick up a car and flip it over all by yourself, I’ll be mighty impressed. Maybe not respectful, but impressed.
On the other hand, I certainly and whole-heartedly respect and especially encourage muslims (and catholics and Co$ and whoever else) who might be inclined to set themselves on fire to do so. So long, of course, as they go the whole distance. Heck, I’ll even sweep up the ashes myself. I say go for it!
wow, I didn’t expect much response to my Ska-p comment.
Satan, I don’t rely on the song to make my mind on the subject, what I mean is that the first time I heard the song I thought “wow, thats pretty much how I feel about Palestine”
Simon, sorry about the misunderstanding, I didn’t realize “=0” was someone (I thought you were expressing surpirse!)
Daoloth, Ska-p has actually a lot of really good lyrics…If you liked it you should look them up (I’m actually no big fan of the band, and the only song that I remember the lyrics from is Intifada…but they have a lot of other good songs!)
I can’t wait to start yelling ‘bishop’ at rude people in the street. Life is good.
Here in Britain, there is a wonderful old cheese, called Stinking Bishop. Would anyone like some?
As a Greek resident, I should explain some things.
In Greece, there is a significant connection between the Greek Orthodox Church and the state. Among other things, the GOC has a say on whether temples of other faiths get built and where, as well as stewardship over most of the cemetaries (I believe there are a just a few historical catholic and jewish cemetaries) The issue of a mosque in the Athens area is a hotly debated issue, as the muslim population has grown significantly due to immigration.
Regarding the mosque, the Greek state needs to provide the permits for a mosque of a significant aize to accommodate the growing muslim pop. I believe the community has made several proposals that have been struck down,either by the state or blackballed by the GOC.
Until recently over 90% of the population were (at least nominally ) G.O. Xians and it is still the unmentioned assumption if you are Greek & white. While there isn’t a lot of overt racism, its still there. The church has been immersed in the recent centuries of Greek history. We arguably weren’t ready to be a multicultural country. (and its not peachy to be an atheist here either)
“Bishop” as a term of abuse has a certain charm, but there is a danger of being mistaken for protestants. “No Bishops! No Popery!” has been a war-cry since parlimentarian times. Also, is there a danger of angering the local chess club? I reckon we could take those geeks though.
Mercator:
What’s usually at the end of a “bishopric” isn’t a “k”, it’s an altar boy.
Cafeeine:
Do you think that the muslim population has grown significantly due to immigration, or because they are very good at breeding? Been to the
North of France recently?
And to digress a bit, if flipping a car impresses you,
come to California, where people flip houses!
Thanks Cafeeine, I was hoping a greek person would leave a comment, as the rest of us lack of the background you have on this situation…
In Greece, the muslim influx was due to immigration, although breeding will become a factor in the coming years. The problem has surfaced in the last 4-5 years, while there has been a muslim minority in Greece, a remnant of the years of the Ottoman empire and the subsequent changes in territories & populations. (We were a lot more mixed before the Greek liberation in the 1820s.) The difference is apparent because the increased Muslim population comes from Pakistan, Afghanistan, Bangladesh etc. and have more integration problems than just their religion. Native Greek Muslims on the other hand have been long neglected by the Greek state, which is unfortunate because they could have been used as a connecting link.
Ihave read this in a book, I can’t remember which one:
“When I was a child, I prayed to god to give me a bicycle.
Later on, I stole one.
Now, I pray for forgiveness!”
If you have no respect for yourself (and if you believe in any of the Abrahamic religion then you really can’t have any) then you will seek affirmations from others,
fear is a close substitute in form if you avoid looking closely