I just voted on isitfunnytoday. Two people said this strip wasn’t funny! I really liked the strip today so I’m moderately annoyed at those two people who, as far as I’m concerned are fundamentally wrong.
Brilliant again – I love how you combine most of the godbot’s debate traits in this comic – the persecution complex, the flip flop logic, the moving of the goalposts
If you could have worked in changing between meanings of key words, it would have been total bliss.
moderates? fundamentalists? everyone knows the problem are those guys that don’t do anything religious and don’t talk about religion but are too afraid not to be religious for Im-afraid-of-death reasons
Happy 400! And yeah, a great illustration of a classic theist evasive tactic.
@kiyaroru: a very apt comparison; I love watching flocks of birds do that. Now I can make the connection when I’m confronted by the verbal tactic and get a good laugh.
Religious moderates have always baffled me. I am astonished that there are adults out there that believe such stuff as talking animals, magic food and dead people coming back to life. But how do you cope with those who admit that these things are obviously false and only believed in by primitive folk because they didn’t know any better but still claim that their religion is in some way true?
I have a neighbor -moderate- that, every time I ask about religion, says something like this:
“I was raised to be catholic. Dying sucks. You may have lots of good arguments against religion, but I want to go to heaven so I’ll take my chances with catholicism since I was raised that way”
Of course, this guy also brags about hookers and laughing at hobbos…but hey, he has a St. Christopher thingy hanging from his neck, so he’s going to heaven, right?
Then there’s my sister – fundamentalist- who believes everything the bible says to be true – no metaphores, etc- when I ask her about religion all I get is:
“blablabla can’t hear you blablabla” (seriously), or, a funnier version:
She: No fossils
Me: There are fossils (list of fossils from homo ancestors)
She: Those where just different, exctinct species of monkeys (actually her exact words where ‘those where monkeys’…)
Poor Dick, he has to keep saying it over and over–any way you cut it, it’s superstition; repeat, superstition; repeat, superstition.
I lived for years in Pensacola, the Buckle of the Bible Belt. My students were fine folks, and often very smart. But when they talked about Jesus, their eyes would go all weird, reflecting, no doubt, the well-washed brain.
I am very happy that J and M are back on the Guiness and talking to Barmaid. I had been concerned that they might have fallen out.
Happy 400th strip and well done!
nina: any time I bring up evidence she says “I don’t want to talk about this”, covers her ears and goes away…It’s sad (the alternative is the previously mentioned “blablabla Im not listening blablabla”)
Observation indicates that if humans have evolved after 40 poopillion years, that does not speak well for the theory, the same can be said of intelligent design. Most likely people are the beta versions of a work in progress.
Mateogg, get her drunk. She’ll talk then, they always do. Your challenge will then be to understand why she believes what she does. Only then can your arguments have any hope of saving her from the dark side.
Unless you or she has a few recessive genes, or someone’s adopted, there’s a pretty good chance she’ll come around to your way of thinking, eventually. 😉
Here’s what the barmaid would have said if there had been room for a larger speech balloon:
‘Well moderates do believe things that there’s no good reason to believe, and on the whole I think it would be better if they didn’t.’
In a way it’s really more significant that there’s no good reason to believe what religions claim than it is that the things they claim are almost certainly untrue. Even if they are true – we’ve been given no good reason to think so – so if a god diddit – that’s a god who isn’t playing fair. It’s a cheat. I think unbelievers should lean on that point more. If god exists and has been carefully hiding the fact all this time, that god is playing a nasty trick.
mateogg: you could ask your neighbour what if he’s been worshipping the wrong one (or, even worse, the right one in the wrong way) all his life?
After all there is a big difference between “I accept that there is a god” and “I must follow the Bible”. How does he know that he shouldn’t be with some other holy book, or The Da Vinci Code, or even this website?
Same argument might work with your sister.
Apart from agnostics, there is another kind of “don’t talk about religion but are too afraid not to be religious for Im-afraid-of-death reasons” guy: the ones who will be murdered if they express disagreement.
Charles F. Darwin! Author portrays Christianity and Islam in bed together, then has his fictional Jesus complaining about moderates being lumped together with fundamentalists? Atheist lies!
@mateogg – I like to refer to it as geographically lucky. I mean why else would these peple be Christians? If these same people were born in Suadi Arabia, China, etc they would be Muslim, Buddists etc. I’ve used this before to fundi’s and get the glazed look as well.
What OB says reminds me of the response of Bertrand Russell on being asked what he would say if, after death, he was confronted with god. With hardly a pause Bertie replied that he would say “Why didn’t you provide more evidence?”
On a related note- Rebecca Goldstein’s new “36 Arguments for the Existence of God” is very funny, of relevance to JaMers ad should keep Author in new ideas for another 400 strips. Best.
@crusader rabid — christians are just as fundamentalist as muslims. You yourself are one rabid example of that. It’s all the same crazy based on same superstition, really.
Nina:”(…) at least the fundies are more honest in saying it’s all gospel”
True words have never been spoken! Moderates are practically lazy hypocrites refusing to admit how crazy, illogical and/or cruel their religion really is. While fundies admit to their craziness, unfortunately willing to fight, die and/or kill for it.
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December 5, 2008
400 eh? Still a few I’ve not read yet I think. Many happy returns.
These instantaneous changes of direction in argument remind me of schools of fish or flocks of birds.
Happy quatrecentensomething.
This may be my very favorite strip.
Great job! I look forward to the 1,000th strip!
I just voted on isitfunnytoday. Two people said this strip wasn’t funny! I really liked the strip today so I’m moderately annoyed at those two people who, as far as I’m concerned are fundamentally wrong.
I must remember this one. It is so apposite to many internet discussions I’ve been involved in, and will be again.
David B
Brilliant again – I love how you combine most of the godbot’s debate traits in this comic – the persecution complex, the flip flop logic, the moving of the goalposts
If you could have worked in changing between meanings of key words, it would have been total bliss.
Moderates give cover to the wacko fundies; they deserve to be picked on!
moderates? fundamentalists? everyone knows the problem are those guys that don’t do anything religious and don’t talk about religion but are too afraid not to be religious for Im-afraid-of-death reasons
@mateogg: The word you are looking for is ‘agnostic’ 😉
Classic! This is a keeper!
Thanks for what you do! Your strips make my day!
Happy 400! And yeah, a great illustration of a classic theist evasive tactic.
@kiyaroru: a very apt comparison; I love watching flocks of birds do that. Now I can make the connection when I’m confronted by the verbal tactic and get a good laugh.
Religious moderates have always baffled me. I am astonished that there are adults out there that believe such stuff as talking animals, magic food and dead people coming back to life. But how do you cope with those who admit that these things are obviously false and only believed in by primitive folk because they didn’t know any better but still claim that their religion is in some way true?
I think of religious moderates as being lazy cherry pickers
anything that suits what they want is gospel, everything else is a metaphoric story
at least the fundies are more honest in saying it’s all gospel
I have a neighbor -moderate- that, every time I ask about religion, says something like this:
“I was raised to be catholic. Dying sucks. You may have lots of good arguments against religion, but I want to go to heaven so I’ll take my chances with catholicism since I was raised that way”
Of course, this guy also brags about hookers and laughing at hobbos…but hey, he has a St. Christopher thingy hanging from his neck, so he’s going to heaven, right?
Then there’s my sister – fundamentalist- who believes everything the bible says to be true – no metaphores, etc- when I ask her about religion all I get is:
“blablabla can’t hear you blablabla” (seriously), or, a funnier version:
She: No fossils
Me: There are fossils (list of fossils from homo ancestors)
She: Those where just different, exctinct species of monkeys (actually her exact words where ‘those where monkeys’…)
Poor Dick, he has to keep saying it over and over–any way you cut it, it’s superstition; repeat, superstition; repeat, superstition.
I lived for years in Pensacola, the Buckle of the Bible Belt. My students were fine folks, and often very smart. But when they talked about Jesus, their eyes would go all weird, reflecting, no doubt, the well-washed brain.
mateogg
how does she explain that those extinct “monkeys” don’t have tails, while monkeys today have tails?
Which is what makes them different from apes
I am very happy that J and M are back on the Guiness and talking to Barmaid. I had been concerned that they might have fallen out.
Happy 400th strip and well done!
Thanks author 😉 that’s a good one
nina: any time I bring up evidence she says “I don’t want to talk about this”, covers her ears and goes away…It’s sad (the alternative is the previously mentioned “blablabla Im not listening blablabla”)
Observation indicates that if humans have evolved after 40 poopillion years, that does not speak well for the theory, the same can be said of intelligent design. Most likely people are the beta versions of a work in progress.
Mateogg, get her drunk. She’ll talk then, they always do. Your challenge will then be to understand why she believes what she does. Only then can your arguments have any hope of saving her from the dark side.
Unless you or she has a few recessive genes, or someone’s adopted, there’s a pretty good chance she’ll come around to your way of thinking, eventually. 😉
except my atheism makes me the weird one in the family…but she’s the only creationist.
Also, Im not sure I want to get my 15yo little sister drunk…yet
Many happy returns ducky – you don’t look a day over 399.
Here’s what the barmaid would have said if there had been room for a larger speech balloon:
‘Well moderates do believe things that there’s no good reason to believe, and on the whole I think it would be better if they didn’t.’
In a way it’s really more significant that there’s no good reason to believe what religions claim than it is that the things they claim are almost certainly untrue. Even if they are true – we’ve been given no good reason to think so – so if a god diddit – that’s a god who isn’t playing fair. It’s a cheat. I think unbelievers should lean on that point more. If god exists and has been carefully hiding the fact all this time, that god is playing a nasty trick.
mateogg: you could ask your neighbour what if he’s been worshipping the wrong one (or, even worse, the right one in the wrong way) all his life?
After all there is a big difference between “I accept that there is a god” and “I must follow the Bible”. How does he know that he shouldn’t be with some other holy book, or The Da Vinci Code, or even this website?
Same argument might work with your sister.
Apart from agnostics, there is another kind of “don’t talk about religion but are too afraid not to be religious for Im-afraid-of-death reasons” guy: the ones who will be murdered if they express disagreement.
Author: congrats on getting to 400.
Charles F. Darwin! Author portrays Christianity and Islam in bed together, then has his fictional Jesus complaining about moderates being lumped together with fundamentalists? Atheist lies!
@mateogg – I like to refer to it as geographically lucky. I mean why else would these peple be Christians? If these same people were born in Suadi Arabia, China, etc they would be Muslim, Buddists etc. I’ve used this before to fundi’s and get the glazed look as well.
@mateogg
Wow, that “i don’t want to talk about it” is actually preferable to them misrepresenting what science or words actually mean.
I think it also means that on some level, they have doubt – and thus, there’s hope – because they can’t even justify the beleif to themselves.
What OB says reminds me of the response of Bertrand Russell on being asked what he would say if, after death, he was confronted with god. With hardly a pause Bertie replied that he would say “Why didn’t you provide more evidence?”
On a related note- Rebecca Goldstein’s new “36 Arguments for the Existence of God” is very funny, of relevance to JaMers ad should keep Author in new ideas for another 400 strips. Best.
@bodach
Yeah I agree, moderates give fundamentalists a platform to stand on, otherwise they would just be nutjobs!
Marcu Brigstock addresses this very well in his speech:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UY-ZrwFwLQg
(I hope you haven’t heard this before/ don’t mind me posting this. It’s very funny, true, and relevant to this comic!)
@crusader rabid — christians are just as fundamentalist as muslims. You yourself are one rabid example of that. It’s all the same crazy based on same superstition, really.
Nina:”(…) at least the fundies are more honest in saying it’s all gospel”
True words have never been spoken! Moderates are practically lazy hypocrites refusing to admit how crazy, illogical and/or cruel their religion really is. While fundies admit to their craziness, unfortunately willing to fight, die and/or kill for it.
[…] (source) What could be better than a comic about Jesus and Mohammad? Jesus and Mohammad eating gefilte fish. […]
This I cannot fathom. Why it would be better if moderates didn’t have a belief in a transcendent reality (even if it is unlikely to be real)?