Check out “The Debunking Handbook” (freely available online) by John Cook and Stephan Lewandowsky to read a great discussion of the phenomenon the barmaid mentions and how to deal with it if you care enough to bother with trying to change someone’s not yet completely closed mind.
Christmas with Jesus and Moe
And the barmaid, ring master of the show
Their inspirational banter
Of things that do matter
Contemplation material, you know.
Long time reader, first time poster….. I’m an Englishman living in California, and love Christmas for all the tradition and memories that it invokes from my childhood. I always used to wish everyone I knew a ‘Merry Christmas’ at this time of year, but find myself increasingly using the phrase ‘Happy Holidays’ here in the US. I felt much more comfortable expressing my non-belief in the UK than I do here, and will pretty much avoid the whole Jesus thing at all costs in my current environment.
Author, your weekly dose of jolly sensible, terribly well observed, and frightfully amusing musings keep me right in this crazy world. Thank you!
To all the C&B regulars, Merry Christmas, Happy New Year, and I look forward to a pie and a pint with you all in the future.
Author’s a wise man*,
He sure does his part.
So what does he give us?
He gives us his art.
*Author, if you happen to be female, please take “man” to mean “human.” I considered “wise one,” but it seemed to me to obscure the reference to the carol π . Thanks for J&M! I admire your ability to make people both laugh and think.
Nassar, nice work. I’ll take it that was your Christmas gift to Author.
Please don’t make it your resolution to retire your trademark faux-ignorance though, I look forward to your contribution (and the occasional outraged responses) almost as much as I eagerly anticipate each new cartoon.
two cent’s worth, as Author is officially a demi-god he is technically neither one thing nor the other, but he does pass amongst the unworthy in the guise of a male. And I am steadfast in that belief because that belief is true.
p.s. I enjoyed the card from your brother. π
Here’s hoping that everybody’s day went as well as could be expected. I know mine did.
Happy post-Christmas to you all.
This is one of my 5 top sites. Bless you for your sanity injections, and may you remain the thorn in countless sides. I would be curious on references to the studies made by the barmaid…did a quick google and didn’t come up with something.
A truly frightening piece of research, Author. But let’s have faith that in the C & B, at least, the regulars will be taking steps to remind themselves of it – even as they chat. Knowing what your brain is up to behind your back is surely part of the battle to get reason and reality accepted as the universal norm.
Yet what do they do when we ask to see that evidence? Wave vaguely at the pretty flowers and show us that ‘God’ gets a mention I’m their holy tomes.
Not exactly empirical!
People can change their minds because of empirical evidence though. If you are not emotionally invested in the subject it’s much easier to rely on logic and empirical evidence.
I think that research applies to most strongly to cases that are either a matter of identity or efficiency. If you identify with some group, the symbols and opinions that those in the in-group share can be a big part of your own identity. Being told that your opinions are false is a direct attack on your identity; as well as everything you have said and done based on that identity. At the minimum, accepting that you even *might* be wrong requires research and evaluation of facts, i.e. time and energy. Sometimes it’s just easier to look Reality square in the eye and deny it.
The research usually focuses on issues like religion or global climate warming where there are at least two vocal sides promoting opposing viewpoints. If you would rather think that pork causes immoral conduct, that the Catholic priests are all innocent victims of a feminist gay jihadist conspiracy and that the climate will never change because Jesus won’t let it; there are plenty of people waiting to tell you that you are right. There is such a cloud of Fear,Uncertainty and Doubt being thrown up that it becomes difficult to tell what the facts are. Metaphorically, emotionally, it is as if people just have to pick a team to back. How many people who strongly identify with a sports team will switch allegiance to the winning team after every game?
Author, thanks for the link. It is depressing that “our hard-wiring makes democracy hopeless,” but other forms of government seem to be even more hopeless. As Winston S. Churchill said, “Democracy is the worst form of government, except for all the others.” The founding fathers of the USA relied on their powers of reason when they established the republic (which has become more democratic over time), including checks and balances in the system, to help tip the scales in favor of reason–but I think that they understood that there is no guarantee that reason will prevail.
There is a child rearing philosophy popularized by Dr. William Sears et al. that states that when children feel right, they act right. Maybe the best hope for reason to prevail in society is to bring up children to feel secure (rather than threatened) when dealing with others, to internalize the rule that they ought not to do to others what they would not want done to themselves, to value the trait of making decisions based on known facts, but to value even more the trait of changing decisions when the known facts change. If values are based on emotions, and reason is a tool that we use to support our values, we must be very careful about the values that we teach our children. (Or, as my dad puts it, how are you going to brainwash your kids?–since one man’s teaching is another man’s brainwashing π .)
Jesus & Mo (the characters) are absurd, blinkered, and oddly very sweet. J&M (the cartoon) is brilliant: sharp, delicious, irresistible. Salman Rushdie
Jesus and Mo cartoons are wonderfully funny and true. Richard Dawkins
Jesus and Mo make the world a better place, bless their little hearts. Ophelia Benson
In a world defined by outrage and offence and liberal spinelessness, Jesus and Mo is a treasure, whose value we should never fail to recognize. Read them. Laugh. And think. Kenan Malik
The brilliant, celebrated, freaking hilarious atheist comic strip ... Greta Christina
...rays of sanity in a befuddled world. Keri Hulme
The liveliest depictions of Muhammad currently available... Malise Ruthven
J & Mo is the funniest and most consistently thought-provoking cartoon strip on the Net. In a saner world, it would run in a major newspaper. Nelson Jones, Heresy Corner
Consistently amusing, frequently thought-provoking and often heart-warming. New Humanist
Jesus & Mo is one of the most wonderful things on the internet.. JT Eberhard
Wittily captures much of the absurdity of religious apologetics. Mano Singham
I love jesusandmo.net cartoons - witty and sharp! Katha Pollitt
Often hilarious, frequently wry, these cartoons do what all the best cartoons do: they tell the truth through humour. Terry Sanderson, NSS President
...a wonderfully acid British cartoonist... Nick Cohen
I love the scrappy mockery of Jesus and Mo. Freedom of speech
includes the freedom to mock any person, any thing, any activity, and
any belief -- and J&M stands up for this unflinchingly Richard Stallman
...empowering, important and deeply progressive, not to mention hilarious... Council of Ex-Muslims
February 24, 2006
Chuckles!
Merry Christmas, Cool Yule, Happy Festivus etc to one and all, and especially to Author.
Nope, Jesus. Sorry. You’ve got it backwards. Something’s “true” because you believe it & it works.
Like Euclidean geometry.
Everyone,
HAPPY INSERT-YOUR-HOLIDAY-HERE!!!
Have a wonderful one of whatever it is you celebrate at this time of year!
Remember that ultimately the season IS the reason!
Happy Christmas, Author!
Happiness and lots of it.
Check out “The Debunking Handbook” (freely available online) by John Cook and Stephan Lewandowsky to read a great discussion of the phenomenon the barmaid mentions and how to deal with it if you care enough to bother with trying to change someone’s not yet completely closed mind.
happy christmas author, thank you for you do, itβs much appreciated. take care!
Merry festering and a happy new year
The old fashioned “my mind is made up, don’t confuse me with facts” ploy.
Have a safe Guy Fawkes day.
When I finished reading the cartoon, I imagined the Barmaid thinking, “QED!”
Among the holiday card I’ve received this year was one from my brother, with Fact No. 25 on the front: https://www.pinterest.com/pin/279012139385923807/ π
May happiness visit everyone in the Cock & Bull crowd during this holiday season, and may 2015 bring us all the best!
Ahem! That should have been cards. All I want for Christmas is the edit function π
Joyous SOL INVICTUS. So look forward to Thursday morning. I have never before given to anything but I can’t afford to lose you!
richardelguru: “The season is the reason.” Excellent – that says a lot.
Christmas with Jesus and Moe
And the barmaid, ring master of the show
Their inspirational banter
Of things that do matter
Contemplation material, you know.
Thank you, Nassar.
Ho Ho Ho! A breath of fresh air during this season of waste and excess under the guise of religion.
Merry Happy Joy to all!
Happy Christmas, Author and All.
and what makes their beleifs true – the fact that they are in the ‘holy’ book lol
Enjoy your Thing, whatever it is, everyone.
Long time reader, first time poster….. I’m an Englishman living in California, and love Christmas for all the tradition and memories that it invokes from my childhood. I always used to wish everyone I knew a ‘Merry Christmas’ at this time of year, but find myself increasingly using the phrase ‘Happy Holidays’ here in the US. I felt much more comfortable expressing my non-belief in the UK than I do here, and will pretty much avoid the whole Jesus thing at all costs in my current environment.
Author, your weekly dose of jolly sensible, terribly well observed, and frightfully amusing musings keep me right in this crazy world. Thank you!
To all the C&B regulars, Merry Christmas, Happy New Year, and I look forward to a pie and a pint with you all in the future.
I think the effect is partly one of loyalty. We care much more about what we perceive to be threatened.
Merry Christmas one and all! π
Happy humbugs!
Gawd bless us, everyone!
If I were a swineherd, I would bring a ham.
Patrick, thanks for the laugh!
Author’s a wise man*,
He sure does his part.
So what does he give us?
He gives us his art.
*Author, if you happen to be female, please take “man” to mean “human.” I considered “wise one,” but it seemed to me to obscure the reference to the carol π . Thanks for J&M! I admire your ability to make people both laugh and think.
Thank you J & M, now I know more than ever that the Koreshanity belief in Cellular Cosmogony (Hollow Earth) is, more than ever, true.
Mary Christmas to each and everyone of you.
Thanks author and happy Christmas everyone
Happy Solstice, y’all !
Right…Happy secular, non-denominational holiday. That’s as generic and non offensive as i can get; and still express any feeling.
Too bad Jesus & Mo don’t have the same ‘true’ beliefs. it would then be a happy holiday.
Nassar, nice work. I’ll take it that was your Christmas gift to Author.
Please don’t make it your resolution to retire your trademark faux-ignorance though, I look forward to your contribution (and the occasional outraged responses) almost as much as I eagerly anticipate each new cartoon.
two cent’s worth, as Author is officially a demi-god he is technically neither one thing nor the other, but he does pass amongst the unworthy in the guise of a male. And I am steadfast in that belief because that belief is true.
p.s. I enjoyed the card from your brother. π
Here’s hoping that everybody’s day went as well as could be expected. I know mine did.
Happy post-Christmas to you all.
Ah yes, the eyes wide closed syndrome…
The corollary to “I’ll believe it when I see it”, which is most often expressed as “I’ll see it when I believe it”.
How sad, yet how prevalent, and (appropriately) no cure in sight.
And a happy whatever floats your boat to all…
Just changing my email address. Happy winter solstice to one and all.
Merry Newtonmass to all.
Three-tigers, as you are changing email, did you know that http://www.mail.com/int/ offers addresses that end @atheist.com.
I’m reminded of a quote that went something like; If you could reason with a fundamentalist, there would be no fundamentalists.
Max T Furr:
That would be Dr. House (or his scriptwriters).
Ben Goldacre put it even better – ‘You can’t reason someone out a position they didn’t reason themselves into.’
Io Saturnalia!
Thanks for a great year, Author
@Nassar=Ben+Houdja;
@Acolyte of Sagan:
I love you guys’ poetry.
Cheers Robert. Not quite sure why you’re praising me for poetry but I’ll take it anyway.
What d’ya know? I’m a poet and…….you know the rest. π
This is one of my 5 top sites. Bless you for your sanity injections, and may you remain the thorn in countless sides. I would be curious on references to the studies made by the barmaid…did a quick google and didn’t come up with something.
Thank you, Doc. This is where I got the idea – there are some references there.
A truly frightening piece of research, Author. But let’s have faith that in the C & B, at least, the regulars will be taking steps to remind themselves of it – even as they chat. Knowing what your brain is up to behind your back is surely part of the battle to get reason and reality accepted as the universal norm.
You know that god-botherers will say this is exactly why atheists ignore all the ‘evidence’ for a god.
Yet what do they do when we ask to see that evidence? Wave vaguely at the pretty flowers and show us that ‘God’ gets a mention I’m their holy tomes.
Not exactly empirical!
People can change their minds because of empirical evidence though. If you are not emotionally invested in the subject it’s much easier to rely on logic and empirical evidence.
I think that research applies to most strongly to cases that are either a matter of identity or efficiency. If you identify with some group, the symbols and opinions that those in the in-group share can be a big part of your own identity. Being told that your opinions are false is a direct attack on your identity; as well as everything you have said and done based on that identity. At the minimum, accepting that you even *might* be wrong requires research and evaluation of facts, i.e. time and energy. Sometimes it’s just easier to look Reality square in the eye and deny it.
The research usually focuses on issues like religion or global climate warming where there are at least two vocal sides promoting opposing viewpoints. If you would rather think that pork causes immoral conduct, that the Catholic priests are all innocent victims of a feminist gay jihadist conspiracy and that the climate will never change because Jesus won’t let it; there are plenty of people waiting to tell you that you are right. There is such a cloud of Fear,Uncertainty and Doubt being thrown up that it becomes difficult to tell what the facts are. Metaphorically, emotionally, it is as if people just have to pick a team to back. How many people who strongly identify with a sports team will switch allegiance to the winning team after every game?
Author, thanks for the link. It is depressing that “our hard-wiring makes democracy hopeless,” but other forms of government seem to be even more hopeless. As Winston S. Churchill said, “Democracy is the worst form of government, except for all the others.” The founding fathers of the USA relied on their powers of reason when they established the republic (which has become more democratic over time), including checks and balances in the system, to help tip the scales in favor of reason–but I think that they understood that there is no guarantee that reason will prevail.
There is a child rearing philosophy popularized by Dr. William Sears et al. that states that when children feel right, they act right. Maybe the best hope for reason to prevail in society is to bring up children to feel secure (rather than threatened) when dealing with others, to internalize the rule that they ought not to do to others what they would not want done to themselves, to value the trait of making decisions based on known facts, but to value even more the trait of changing decisions when the known facts change. If values are based on emotions, and reason is a tool that we use to support our values, we must be very careful about the values that we teach our children. (Or, as my dad puts it, how are you going to brainwash your kids?–since one man’s teaching is another man’s brainwashing π .)