Beautiful! far- right Christians are quick to condemn minorities for claiming discrimination. They call it the “victim mentality.”
Fundamentalists/Dominionists/Evangelicals don’t recognize that it is they (the far-right) who have unquestionably adopted the “victim mentality” as a means of forcing the rest of society to bend to their will. They want the government to stay out of their lives, but have no problem with using the government to force their views on non believers or those of other beliefs.
Wouldn’t it be cool if the same clerics who distributed the Dutch cartoons and sparked riots all over the Islamic world were to try to do the same with this one?
Uh, no I guess that wouldn’t be cool at all. Irony is lost on these people.
I wish I got whatever newspapers this is published in. Seriously, how can religious people read the Internet and not become atheist? Shit. Anyway I figure I’ll follow this on google groups or something. Much fun as following things as they occur is, all in one go is great too and much easier to micromanage, especially when your computer sucks.
What’s so refreshing about Jesus and Mo is its evident anti-discrimination policy, so exquisitely manifested in this cartoon. Most polemics against Islam that I’ve seen are backed by Xtain interests, and much anti-semitic and some anti-Christian stuff is backed by Moslems. Atheists, for some reason, seem generally to want have a go at Xtians more than Moslems, which is strange. Here we see both Islam and Christianity placed at the same level, with their prophets puzzling to interpret their own movements in a contemporary context.
The inspired idea of Jesus and Mo being good friends ought to operate among enlightened Xtians and Moslems alike to give this cartoon cult status. I’m pessimistic, though, that use of the word “enlightened” in this context is an oxymoron.
I wonder if this one was inspired by Sunday Morning’s “Heaven and Earth” (BBC UK). That Ranting Homophobic Catholic Bigot Joanna Bogle was shining, claiming to be persecuted because the Church has to abide by new adoption regulations, amongst other things. Even shouting down her Christian co-guest when he offered a different point-of-view. Let’s hear more from Catholic ranters I say. At least they’re honest.
I’ve never complained about Christians for being anything but annoying when they try to talk about religion to me. Be Christian, be Muslim, be a Moonie or an atheist or a very confused person, for all I care: as long as you leave me alone!
Yep, the bar maid is spot on. They all do that. Every single person who has religion does that, and ONLY EVER people with religion. That’s in no way a complete generalisation and yes I AM being totally sarcastic.
Proof? The British National Party. Far from the Christian Right in the US these guys are just racist, jingoistic idiots yet they’ve used the “we are the victims in our own country” cry to such great effect that there’s been a u-turn in their popularity in the last few years. So much so they’ve even managed to get “Britishness” on the current government’s agenda.
And not a God in sight. So whether or not you believe, you’re a victim and your burden is the heaviest.
This is pointless ad hominem. The same could be said for atheists who complain about intelligent design being taught in schools, or that In God We Trust is on our money.
“Oh no, those darn faithiests are telling my child that God exists!”
This high-horse elitism is pathetic. You are no better than any other human whether you believe in God or not.
An ad hominem argument is of the form ‘you are [insult], therefore your argument is wrong,’ so I don’t think it applies in this case.
This comic is about victimhood. Is anyone seriously suggesting that religious groups don’t indulge in this? Ok, it’s not *just* religious groups, but that’s not the point of the comic. The barmaid’s remarks can just as easily be used for any group that considers itself persecuted.
Again, if Abrahamic religions would disappear, we wouldn’t have this shit going on.
@ Sad: Wtf? Atheists only try to defend themselves from the trash they shove down our throats. I don’t see Atheists killing and or forcibly people in the name of Athe (pun intended) or Evolution.
Again, a cry made by pretty much every group, especially those that are involved in some kind of war.
Israelis are only defending themselves from Palestinians in, emmm, Palestine.
The US was only defending itself by pre-emptively attacking Iraq.
And Iraq was a secular state which, since the invasion, is steering well and truly towards a theocracy. I don’t remember Saddam gassing Kurds in the name of Allah. Or tossing people in Abu Ghraib for crimes against Islam.
Stalin was an atheist too and killed hundreds of thousands of folk because of their religion.
So what are we saying now? That genocide in the name of God is worse than “just” genocide?
Ah yeah sure, the Israelis should let the Palestinians kill them without opposing any resistance. What in hell made the Jews think that being persecuted since Hadrian expelled them from Judea after the bar Kochba revolt, buying the land from the Ottoman Empire, and waging like 5 independence wars against the unified forces of Egypt, Iraq, Syria, Jordan, Arabia, Lebanon, etc., grants them the right to desecrate the land where Mahomet (SBUH) ascended to Heaven on the back of a human headed magical flying horse!?!?!?!? What made the Israelis think the Arabs would be happy with only 90% of the British Mandate of Palestine, todays Kingdom of Jordan!? Those filthy Zionist Nazis!!! The day will come when they get their necks and fingers smitten off! They deserve it ’cause they let gays parade on the streets of Jerusalem when they should be stoned to death according to Deuteronomy.
With taglines like “After today no more Shias”, the massacre of Kurds, the gassing of Halabja, the Osirak affair, the war with Iran, the invasion of Kuwait, the current murdering of Sunni Muslims by Shias in Iraq, etc., I’m pretty sure Iraq was a peaceful secular state before the US invaded.
Stalin, the communist prophet of Lenin the most gracious the most merciful, purged those filthy ungrateful Trotskyites off the Communist Party and the Military and ordered Trotsky killed for the common good of the people of the Soviet Union, satellites and assorted puppet states. No doubt prophet Stalin created the Jewish Autonomous Oblast as a concentration camp to slain the nasty Zionists, and revived the Russian Orthodox Church if only to intensify patriotic support for the war effort, i.e. secure the availability of cannon fodder.
I must be going’ feckin’ blind… I can’t see any words like that on my money. Just pitchas of marsupials. monotremes, odd birds and an indigenous person or two.
I’m a “right-wing Christian zealot” and AFAICT, based on my reading of the Bible and what Jesus Christ actually taught and did in terms of setting an example, Christianity IS unique and stands alone among all other religions (and non-religions, or whatever you think “atheism” is) when it comes to victimhood.
In particular, Christianity is (supposedly) all about rejecting the culture of victimhood, the “grievance” culture, whatever you call it, not by passing laws against it, but by turning the other cheek, doing good to (and even loving) your enemies, and withstanding even the harshest punishment (crucifixion) while forgiving those who sin against you.
Human nature means almost anybody will use pretty much anything they can to assert dominance over others, unless otherwise “enlightened” such that they view others as those whom they should serve (as Jesus washed his disciples’ feet, and instructed them to do likewise), in which case they reject their “chimp nature”.
This means: Christianity is, as with any other belief/nonbelief system, prone to abuse by those seeking dominance and control over others (despite its own internal rules to the contrary); and people who say we aren’t descendant from chimps (primates) because “the Bible says so” should instead stop acting like a bunch of chimps themselves, trying to determine heirarchies and their own positions therein, and simply follow the straight and narrow path outlined by Jesus Christ himself.
Christianity is ultimately all about the right to live as one sees fit — the right to choose. In fact, life is indistinguishable from the exercise of choice; the Right to Life IS the same as the Right to Choose. Any Christian who believes “those that are not for Jesus are against Him” should consider the implications of the fact that Jesus explicitly left such people free to make such choices even in the hands of his own followers (who he knew would betray him): anyone who denies that choice to another would, in fact, be surely denying Jesus (Life, and thus Choice) himself.
In seemingly missing the point you managed to have completely proven mine. Every group thinks they have more of a right to feel more persecuted than the next and madness needs no religion to prosper (although in alot of cases it seems to help).
“Seriously, how can religious people read the Internet and not become atheist?”
Religion thrives on ignorance and fear. I believe that Internet is the arch nemesis of all religions. Already it made an athiest out of me though i was not all that religious before. And internet is just 10 years old as we know it today. And it is almost uncensorable, you can always get at censored websites using https redirecting websites or using censorware software.
I think, that as long as people has differences, it will always be conflicts, and it will always be persecutions (as brother of wars) as one of the results of conflicts, I’m learning Conflict in Sociology class now…
but somehow religion, be not the only, but has been the most thing that brain-washed its believer, I guess it’s because the beliefs and faiths, that’s why there are some similar cases but not related like nazis, etc…
Human is so foolish that they wanted to die on something they are believing…like dreams, etc…but it’s also the belief itself that made human advances…I think it’s a double-edged sword…
I guess to settle this isn’t something big like destroying Abrahamic religions but just one world…tolerance…I’ve got mine and you’ve got yours…and we acknowledge each other beliefs (be it in religions or others)…
sorry for off-topic of the comic, by the way. Correct me if I’m wrong or you have different opinion…
“In god we trust”, well, truthfully, I do not. Does that mean I can never use US currency?
No great loss if so.
Carolita, 19/3/07, I wish I’d met you then. You are a beautiful soul.
Sad, 20/3/07, we are not complaining about your lot telling us your special imaginary friends are real. Many little children and a few people who never become adults do this. We are complaining about you using them as an excuse to burn us alive when we don’t obey the rules you pretend they whispered in your ears. We do not need nor do we want bishops and voodoo priests shaping our Parliaments or poisoning our schools. We don’t even want them indoctrinating your children for that way suicide bombers lie.
We want your religion in all of its internecine squabbling to just fade away and die like the religions of Osiris, Horus, Mithras and Odin before it.
We don’t enforce the laws of Dalran and Makros in our lands, why should we accept those of the equally imaginary and even more horribly inhumane Jawweh?
Just because you say we should?
Because you read it in a comic?
Because some freak in a frock frantically forces fanaticism on you?
This and every other world will be far better and our lives happier when your trivial little cult is gone.
Forever.
And you are well named. It is so very sad that so many waste so much living on such a pitiful thing.
More so that they try to force us to, too.
TB, 22/3/07: maybe we should get all religious-warry on the theists. Kill all the priesthoods, garnishee their funds, confiscate and convert to better uses their churches, keep a few copies of their holy books for study and for historical interest (some printed Bibles and K’rans are truly beautiful, masterpieces of the art even if the contents are vile) but recycle the rest and retrain and re-educate everyone who has been intellectually impoverished by the cults including the children.
Just think of the good we could do with the treasures of the churches and of what we could learn from the sequestered files and libraries in their vaults. (Does the Vatican library carry records of the who-killed-JFK conspiracy? Or Roswell? ) Think of what we could accomplish were the entire human species to devote church-time and church-effort to constructive purposes instead of squabbling and killing and chanting to imaginary friends.
Think of all of those holy men being put to work cleaning up the streets, the rivers, the Ocean and the Palmyra their delusions have destroyed.
Think of never losing another ancient city and all of its history to savages trying to enforce their vision of holiness on everyone else.
It’s a pity the “war on religion” would be such a horrible thing if we did do it. The results could be so wonderful if only the means were less apocalyptic and evil.
Maybe we could do it gently?
To further BD’s thesis: today, Christmas Day, 2021, there was a launch of a telescope onto a journey to a Lagrangian Zone. The JWST will, if it works, help us to explore all sorts of stuff including the very first stars ever born in the universe.
This thing has taken 20 years and cost ten thousand million USDollars, or about a dollar per year per US-Citizen.
Imagine what we could have accomplished in those 20 years with all the wealth of the Utah Church, the Roman Catholic church and all of those mosques and synagogs behind the effort; with all the manpower of the various clergies and their followers devoted to it.
Hundreds of orbiters, landers, floaty aerostats, fly-bys, interstellar probes and other goodies, as well as all of the good stuff in so many other fields.
Truly that would be a Christmas present to the entire world.
A “Christmas on the Third Rock” miracle.
BD’s methodology is very wrong but his ends would be nice. If only there was a nicer way of accomplishing them. 🙂
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September 19, 2008
Beautiful! far- right Christians are quick to condemn minorities for claiming discrimination. They call it the “victim mentality.”
Fundamentalists/Dominionists/Evangelicals don’t recognize that it is they (the far-right) who have unquestionably adopted the “victim mentality” as a means of forcing the rest of society to bend to their will. They want the government to stay out of their lives, but have no problem with using the government to force their views on non believers or those of other beliefs.
Great cartoon!
Brilliant!
Wouldn’t it be cool if the same clerics who distributed the Dutch cartoons and sparked riots all over the Islamic world were to try to do the same with this one?
Uh, no I guess that wouldn’t be cool at all. Irony is lost on these people.
I wish I got whatever newspapers this is published in. Seriously, how can religious people read the Internet and not become atheist? Shit. Anyway I figure I’ll follow this on google groups or something. Much fun as following things as they occur is, all in one go is great too and much easier to micromanage, especially when your computer sucks.
What’s so refreshing about Jesus and Mo is its evident anti-discrimination policy, so exquisitely manifested in this cartoon. Most polemics against Islam that I’ve seen are backed by Xtain interests, and much anti-semitic and some anti-Christian stuff is backed by Moslems. Atheists, for some reason, seem generally to want have a go at Xtians more than Moslems, which is strange. Here we see both Islam and Christianity placed at the same level, with their prophets puzzling to interpret their own movements in a contemporary context.
The inspired idea of Jesus and Mo being good friends ought to operate among enlightened Xtians and Moslems alike to give this cartoon cult status. I’m pessimistic, though, that use of the word “enlightened” in this context is an oxymoron.
I wonder if this one was inspired by Sunday Morning’s “Heaven and Earth” (BBC UK). That Ranting Homophobic Catholic Bigot Joanna Bogle was shining, claiming to be persecuted because the Church has to abide by new adoption regulations, amongst other things. Even shouting down her Christian co-guest when he offered a different point-of-view. Let’s hear more from Catholic ranters I say. At least they’re honest.
I’ve never complained about Christians for being anything but annoying when they try to talk about religion to me. Be Christian, be Muslim, be a Moonie or an atheist or a very confused person, for all I care: as long as you leave me alone!
Yep, the bar maid is spot on. They all do that. Every single person who has religion does that, and ONLY EVER people with religion. That’s in no way a complete generalisation and yes I AM being totally sarcastic.
Proof? The British National Party. Far from the Christian Right in the US these guys are just racist, jingoistic idiots yet they’ve used the “we are the victims in our own country” cry to such great effect that there’s been a u-turn in their popularity in the last few years. So much so they’ve even managed to get “Britishness” on the current government’s agenda.
And not a God in sight. So whether or not you believe, you’re a victim and your burden is the heaviest.
This is pointless ad hominem. The same could be said for atheists who complain about intelligent design being taught in schools, or that In God We Trust is on our money.
“Oh no, those darn faithiests are telling my child that God exists!”
This high-horse elitism is pathetic. You are no better than any other human whether you believe in God or not.
An ad hominem argument is of the form ‘you are [insult], therefore your argument is wrong,’ so I don’t think it applies in this case.
This comic is about victimhood. Is anyone seriously suggesting that religious groups don’t indulge in this? Ok, it’s not *just* religious groups, but that’s not the point of the comic. The barmaid’s remarks can just as easily be used for any group that considers itself persecuted.
Again, if Abrahamic religions would disappear, we wouldn’t have this shit going on.
@ Sad: Wtf? Atheists only try to defend themselves from the trash they shove down our throats. I don’t see Atheists killing and or forcibly people in the name of Athe (pun intended) or Evolution.
It could only be ad hominem if it had a point, which Sad claims it doesn’t. Therefore Sad contradicts himself in a single sentance.
However, J&M may indeed be ad hominem inasmuch as it uses characters as devices. All politics is largely ad hominem.
But no, the same cannot be said for atheists complaining about God on the Money. That would be a claim of misrepresentation, not persecution.
“We’re only defending ourselves.”
Again, a cry made by pretty much every group, especially those that are involved in some kind of war.
Israelis are only defending themselves from Palestinians in, emmm, Palestine.
The US was only defending itself by pre-emptively attacking Iraq.
And Iraq was a secular state which, since the invasion, is steering well and truly towards a theocracy. I don’t remember Saddam gassing Kurds in the name of Allah. Or tossing people in Abu Ghraib for crimes against Islam.
Stalin was an atheist too and killed hundreds of thousands of folk because of their religion.
So what are we saying now? That genocide in the name of God is worse than “just” genocide?
Ah yeah sure, the Israelis should let the Palestinians kill them without opposing any resistance. What in hell made the Jews think that being persecuted since Hadrian expelled them from Judea after the bar Kochba revolt, buying the land from the Ottoman Empire, and waging like 5 independence wars against the unified forces of Egypt, Iraq, Syria, Jordan, Arabia, Lebanon, etc., grants them the right to desecrate the land where Mahomet (SBUH) ascended to Heaven on the back of a human headed magical flying horse!?!?!?!? What made the Israelis think the Arabs would be happy with only 90% of the British Mandate of Palestine, todays Kingdom of Jordan!? Those filthy Zionist Nazis!!! The day will come when they get their necks and fingers smitten off! They deserve it ’cause they let gays parade on the streets of Jerusalem when they should be stoned to death according to Deuteronomy.
With taglines like “After today no more Shias”, the massacre of Kurds, the gassing of Halabja, the Osirak affair, the war with Iran, the invasion of Kuwait, the current murdering of Sunni Muslims by Shias in Iraq, etc., I’m pretty sure Iraq was a peaceful secular state before the US invaded.
Stalin, the communist prophet of Lenin the most gracious the most merciful, purged those filthy ungrateful Trotskyites off the Communist Party and the Military and ordered Trotsky killed for the common good of the people of the Soviet Union, satellites and assorted puppet states. No doubt prophet Stalin created the Jewish Autonomous Oblast as a concentration camp to slain the nasty Zionists, and revived the Russian Orthodox Church if only to intensify patriotic support for the war effort, i.e. secure the availability of cannon fodder.
“In God We Trust is on our money”
I must be going’ feckin’ blind… I can’t see any words like that on my money. Just pitchas of marsupials. monotremes, odd birds and an indigenous person or two.
I’m a “right-wing Christian zealot” and AFAICT, based on my reading of the Bible and what Jesus Christ actually taught and did in terms of setting an example, Christianity IS unique and stands alone among all other religions (and non-religions, or whatever you think “atheism” is) when it comes to victimhood.
In particular, Christianity is (supposedly) all about rejecting the culture of victimhood, the “grievance” culture, whatever you call it, not by passing laws against it, but by turning the other cheek, doing good to (and even loving) your enemies, and withstanding even the harshest punishment (crucifixion) while forgiving those who sin against you.
Human nature means almost anybody will use pretty much anything they can to assert dominance over others, unless otherwise “enlightened” such that they view others as those whom they should serve (as Jesus washed his disciples’ feet, and instructed them to do likewise), in which case they reject their “chimp nature”.
This means: Christianity is, as with any other belief/nonbelief system, prone to abuse by those seeking dominance and control over others (despite its own internal rules to the contrary); and people who say we aren’t descendant from chimps (primates) because “the Bible says so” should instead stop acting like a bunch of chimps themselves, trying to determine heirarchies and their own positions therein, and simply follow the straight and narrow path outlined by Jesus Christ himself.
Christianity is ultimately all about the right to live as one sees fit — the right to choose. In fact, life is indistinguishable from the exercise of choice; the Right to Life IS the same as the Right to Choose. Any Christian who believes “those that are not for Jesus are against Him” should consider the implications of the fact that Jesus explicitly left such people free to make such choices even in the hands of his own followers (who he knew would betray him): anyone who denies that choice to another would, in fact, be surely denying Jesus (Life, and thus Choice) himself.
Satantiago,
In seemingly missing the point you managed to have completely proven mine. Every group thinks they have more of a right to feel more persecuted than the next and madness needs no religion to prosper (although in alot of cases it seems to help).
Oh snap, someone made it to the front page of Reddit.
the last panel should have been “Hmm…. I guess the Jews top us both then”
@ apikoros,
it wasn’t dutch cartoonists, it was danish. The dutch published it again to support the danish cartoonist.
[…] Jesus and Mo » Archive » badge Jesus and Mohammed walk into a bar… (tags: religion humor Christianity Islam comic) […]
I’ve got an idea. How about a race?
Whoever discovers the answers to all the universe’s questions first gets to be right.
‘Till then, God or no God, it’s the taxman who’s getting my money. I’ll let him thank God for depriving yet another poor athiest of his daily bread.
Atheists, for some reason, seem generally to want have a go at Xtians more than Moslems, which is strange.
Are you making this generalization based on knowing atheists in largely Christian countries? If so, then your observation seems easy to explain.
Good point Calvin,
But try telling 20 people Mohammed was a self-deceived loser in Riyadh, Tehran, Khartoum.
Then try telling 20 people the same about Jesus in London, Paris and New York.
It is a small sample but the results might still be significant.
i think the award for “most persecuted religion” goes to the Jews, obviously. gosh, how could they miss that? 😉
“Seriously, how can religious people read the Internet and not become atheist?”
Religion thrives on ignorance and fear. I believe that Internet is the arch nemesis of all religions. Already it made an athiest out of me though i was not all that religious before. And internet is just 10 years old as we know it today. And it is almost uncensorable, you can always get at censored websites using https redirecting websites or using censorware software.
I think, that as long as people has differences, it will always be conflicts, and it will always be persecutions (as brother of wars) as one of the results of conflicts, I’m learning Conflict in Sociology class now…
but somehow religion, be not the only, but has been the most thing that brain-washed its believer, I guess it’s because the beliefs and faiths, that’s why there are some similar cases but not related like nazis, etc…
Human is so foolish that they wanted to die on something they are believing…like dreams, etc…but it’s also the belief itself that made human advances…I think it’s a double-edged sword…
I guess to settle this isn’t something big like destroying Abrahamic religions but just one world…tolerance…I’ve got mine and you’ve got yours…and we acknowledge each other beliefs (be it in religions or others)…
sorry for off-topic of the comic, by the way. Correct me if I’m wrong or you have different opinion…
How true.
“In god we trust”, well, truthfully, I do not. Does that mean I can never use US currency?
No great loss if so.
Carolita, 19/3/07, I wish I’d met you then. You are a beautiful soul.
Sad, 20/3/07, we are not complaining about your lot telling us your special imaginary friends are real. Many little children and a few people who never become adults do this. We are complaining about you using them as an excuse to burn us alive when we don’t obey the rules you pretend they whispered in your ears. We do not need nor do we want bishops and voodoo priests shaping our Parliaments or poisoning our schools. We don’t even want them indoctrinating your children for that way suicide bombers lie.
We want your religion in all of its internecine squabbling to just fade away and die like the religions of Osiris, Horus, Mithras and Odin before it.
We don’t enforce the laws of Dalran and Makros in our lands, why should we accept those of the equally imaginary and even more horribly inhumane Jawweh?
Just because you say we should?
Because you read it in a comic?
Because some freak in a frock frantically forces fanaticism on you?
This and every other world will be far better and our lives happier when your trivial little cult is gone.
Forever.
And you are well named. It is so very sad that so many waste so much living on such a pitiful thing.
More so that they try to force us to, too.
TB, 22/3/07: maybe we should get all religious-warry on the theists. Kill all the priesthoods, garnishee their funds, confiscate and convert to better uses their churches, keep a few copies of their holy books for study and for historical interest (some printed Bibles and K’rans are truly beautiful, masterpieces of the art even if the contents are vile) but recycle the rest and retrain and re-educate everyone who has been intellectually impoverished by the cults including the children.
Just think of the good we could do with the treasures of the churches and of what we could learn from the sequestered files and libraries in their vaults. (Does the Vatican library carry records of the who-killed-JFK conspiracy? Or Roswell? ) Think of what we could accomplish were the entire human species to devote church-time and church-effort to constructive purposes instead of squabbling and killing and chanting to imaginary friends.
Think of all of those holy men being put to work cleaning up the streets, the rivers, the Ocean and the Palmyra their delusions have destroyed.
Think of never losing another ancient city and all of its history to savages trying to enforce their vision of holiness on everyone else.
It’s a pity the “war on religion” would be such a horrible thing if we did do it. The results could be so wonderful if only the means were less apocalyptic and evil.
Maybe we could do it gently?
To further BD’s thesis: today, Christmas Day, 2021, there was a launch of a telescope onto a journey to a Lagrangian Zone. The JWST will, if it works, help us to explore all sorts of stuff including the very first stars ever born in the universe.
This thing has taken 20 years and cost ten thousand million USDollars, or about a dollar per year per US-Citizen.
Imagine what we could have accomplished in those 20 years with all the wealth of the Utah Church, the Roman Catholic church and all of those mosques and synagogs behind the effort; with all the manpower of the various clergies and their followers devoted to it.
Hundreds of orbiters, landers, floaty aerostats, fly-bys, interstellar probes and other goodies, as well as all of the good stuff in so many other fields.
Truly that would be a Christmas present to the entire world.
A “Christmas on the Third Rock” miracle.
BD’s methodology is very wrong but his ends would be nice. If only there was a nicer way of accomplishing them. 🙂
Merry Christmas, everyone.