“Amazing what passes for progressive thinking these days.” This.
The reasoning in that piece is wrong even within its own outdated sexism.
Apropos of nothing, I read today the Qur’an has a “gospel” of Jesus. I did not know that.
@mcalex. I get what you’re saying about the outdated sexism of the article – but to be fair to the author, they are describing gender attitudes of 2000 years ago.
Even so, the examples of Jesus’s supposed nontypical gender attitudes are very weak.
You wouldn’t have had to be a woman to have known about sweeping a house to find a lost coin.
And what child, boy or girl or undecided, hasn’t watched at their mother’s knee while she baked or mended clothes? To suggest that knowledge of yeast and sewing being the preserve of females is a bit of a stretch.
And all children would have helped out in the garden.
The author is trying to square the circle, to reconcile their queerdom with their religion – an impossible task given their particular religion’s attitude to gender and sexuality. You’ve got to feel a bit of sympathy for them.
According to the Catholic Church, God has no sex (um, I mean that he is neither male nor female, not that he doesn’t engage, although probably that too). I was taught this as a child, but now I’m curious how they square this teaching with the male body of the incarnated Jesus (i.e., “God the Son”). It’s an obvious question though, and I’ve sure Catholic theologians must have worked out some kind of characteristically convoluted answer, something too advanced for Sunday school.
@Donn Cave:
It was a pretty shitty guy thing, I think. Got her pregnant on the first date, didn’t ask whether it was OK, disappeared and left Mary alone to face the music.
Er the xtian god got mary pregnant in the same way that the greek god Zeus got mortal doris’ pregnant , disguised as a Komodo Dragon or summat…That long tongue gets em every time…
M27, this is how Putin will deal with tRump. As a white, male American of no preferred religion, do you think I could migrate to the UK today. or would I have to convert to the official, state-sponsored religion, that which is based on the family values of Henry VIII?
The church of England? Nah, in the cities, the protestant churches are sparsely populated with those well past their sell by date…In the villages the sunday trek to the village church might still put bums on pews…the only religious people in the country are muslim, sikh, Hacidic Judaism, and the minority loonbomb religious like mormon n Joey witness…the last 3 funerals I have been to have all been secular…
@postdoggerel
Migrate to Scotland! We don’t have an established religion, and the Church of Scotland (which pretends that it is the established religion) is dying a slow death from ageing and dwindling congregations.
Scotland is pretty secular – despite much publicised Catholic/Protestant sectarianism between two Glasgow football clubs.
@postdoggerel
Essential knowledge before moving to Scotland: We use the spelling “whisky” for the Scottish stuff, and “whiskey” for the Irish and American products.
I saw some scottish geezer in a dog-collar, going on about shops opening on a Sunday and the bible stating via the 10 commandments that holy bogfather doesn’t want people buying consumer goods on the xtian day of rest…If shops can’t open in Scotland on a Sunday…doesn’t sound secular at all to me…
and I went to an old firm game once…the level of sectarian hatred was off the scale compared to the Manchester derbies I attended during the 70’s and 80’s…
@M27Holts
Sunday Opening is/was a big issue, but more in the western isles and on the west coast of Scotland. Most of Scotland has had Sunday Opening for donkey’s.
The supermarket chain Tesco are planning on opening on Sundays in Stornoway on the Isle of Lewis, and it’s got the Wee-Frees in a stushie [translation: ministers of the United Free Church of Scotland are angry]. But they are a tiny, but vocal, minority.
The problem is one of reporting, IMO. The BBC have a habit of giving the nutters a voice in the interest of “balance” (witness Brexit) – but it gives a skewed picture of majority views.
Take media coverage of the Terminally Ill Adults (End of Life) Bill. 75% of British people surveyed supported legalising assisted suicide. 14% were against. But the media gave airtime to various religious figures who, surprise, surprise, were unanimously against it. I question why religious “leaders” should even be asked for comment. What the **** do they know about anything, any more than the average arsehole on the street? Who do they actually represent?
As far as bums-on-pews and people answering “no religion” on the census go, Scotland is the most secular region of the UK.
I do shout at the telly a lot when they wheel out some clown in a cassock to spout absolute balderdash about really incredibly important secular issue. Thats the problem with the religious spunk mongrels, always telling other people what to do.
They should put me on telly, and I would immediately just say…oy peoples, just get on with doing what you like, as long as it isn’t illegal. And yes, choosing to end your life if you feel that you don’t want to put your loved ones through the agony of watching you die in agony! make it legal, it’s the only sensible thing to do…
It isn’t the media’s fault, if people want to know what god sez about suicide. I mean, sure, the selected priest should expect to be grilled for a rigorous explanation of what “god” is and how the priest came to know what it thinks about anything, but of course people don’t want to see that either – even I would begrudge the time wasted on that. Just get it over with — “… and here’s Reverend Peter Asty posing as an authority on god’s wishes! What do you think, padre, OK with god if you off yerself, or not? Any chance for, like, a second opinion from Shiva?”
arbeyu: Addendum to your correct comment that Scotland is the most secular region of the UK, my hometown of Aberdeen is the most secular region of Scotland!
If the BBC is going to wheel out a bishop for their opinion, then (a) they should introduce it thusly: “We approached the Church of England for their opinion on what their god thinks about it”, and (b) should follow it up with a response from an actual philosopher. Or maybe a scaffy (dustbin man). Anyone that they present as being as equally or more so an expert than the cleric.
Aye. My degree is in Computing and applied Mathematics. However, the none subject of Theology was also a degree you could take…the titles of some of the Theological PHD theses used to make me laugh out loud…I used to ask them of they had considered a thesis on the holyness of Mary Magdalens Knicker Gusset..since that may have contained Jesus jizz!
And there are LOTS of African churches (or if not specifically African, then at least attended by mostly Africans). Within minutes’ walk of where I live, there’s a Redeemed Christian Church of God, a Better Life Ministry, a Watchman Charismatic Renewal Movement, the Victoria Gospel Hall, and an Elim Foursquare Gospel (not African, but the only people I’ve seen going there are).
(SoG will no doubt be able to pin down where I live to within a few streets from that list!)
Try walking past the Mosque on a friday afternoon with your mrs in a Ra-Ra skirt showing her long shapely legs off and low cut blouse with no bra…see how secular Aberdeen is then…
Firstly, Scotland has its own home-grown religious extremists – the Wee Frees – who can be every bit as anti-alcohol, anti-dancing, anti-music, anti-sex, anti-gay and generally anti-fun as the maddest of mullahs… And who have singularly failed to make any dent in Scottish hedonism.
Secondly, the Muslim population in Scotland as a whole is low – and they are a tiny minority in Aberdeen.
I’m not worried that either Muslims or Wee Frees will spoil the fun.
Ahh, I have a few friends who live in Bolton. And in the past 20 years the white population is moving into the areas away from the mosques which become Pakistani majority areas. Non muslim women get harrassed in such areas and all the pubs close…Culture war on my doorstop….my favorite rock venue pub was closed due to it’s proximity to the large mosque in Moses Gate…
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January 27, 2016
“Amazing what passes for progressive thinking these days.” This.
The reasoning in that piece is wrong even within its own outdated sexism.
Apropos of nothing, I read today the Qur’an has a “gospel” of Jesus. I did not know that.
Badaboom!
@mcalex. I get what you’re saying about the outdated sexism of the article – but to be fair to the author, they are describing gender attitudes of 2000 years ago.
Even so, the examples of Jesus’s supposed nontypical gender attitudes are very weak.
You wouldn’t have had to be a woman to have known about sweeping a house to find a lost coin.
And what child, boy or girl or undecided, hasn’t watched at their mother’s knee while she baked or mended clothes? To suggest that knowledge of yeast and sewing being the preserve of females is a bit of a stretch.
And all children would have helped out in the garden.
The author is trying to square the circle, to reconcile their queerdom with their religion – an impossible task given their particular religion’s attitude to gender and sexuality. You’ve got to feel a bit of sympathy for them.
“Why I believe in a non-binary genius” – I think that’s Jesus, not genius.
Oh, yes! Jesus not genius. Thanks, Haggis.
According to the Catholic Church, God has no sex (um, I mean that he is neither male nor female, not that he doesn’t engage, although probably that too). I was taught this as a child, but now I’m curious how they square this teaching with the male body of the incarnated Jesus (i.e., “God the Son”). It’s an obvious question though, and I’ve sure Catholic theologians must have worked out some kind of characteristically convoluted answer, something too advanced for Sunday school.
I thought God got Mary pregnant, which seems like kind of a guy thing.
@Donn Cave:
It was a pretty shitty guy thing, I think. Got her pregnant on the first date, didn’t ask whether it was OK, disappeared and left Mary alone to face the music.
Er the xtian god got mary pregnant in the same way that the greek god Zeus got mortal doris’ pregnant , disguised as a Komodo Dragon or summat…That long tongue gets em every time…
M27, this is how Putin will deal with tRump. As a white, male American of no preferred religion, do you think I could migrate to the UK today. or would I have to convert to the official, state-sponsored religion, that which is based on the family values of Henry VIII?
Oh, the link… https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6fUPkEOEzoc
The church of England? Nah, in the cities, the protestant churches are sparsely populated with those well past their sell by date…In the villages the sunday trek to the village church might still put bums on pews…the only religious people in the country are muslim, sikh, Hacidic Judaism, and the minority loonbomb religious like mormon n Joey witness…the last 3 funerals I have been to have all been secular…
@postdoggerel
Migrate to Scotland! We don’t have an established religion, and the Church of Scotland (which pretends that it is the established religion) is dying a slow death from ageing and dwindling congregations.
Scotland is pretty secular – despite much publicised Catholic/Protestant sectarianism between two Glasgow football clubs.
Thanks, arbeyu. I hear you make some fine whiskey, too.
@postdoggerel
Essential knowledge before moving to Scotland: We use the spelling “whisky” for the Scottish stuff, and “whiskey” for the Irish and American products.
I saw some scottish geezer in a dog-collar, going on about shops opening on a Sunday and the bible stating via the 10 commandments that holy bogfather doesn’t want people buying consumer goods on the xtian day of rest…If shops can’t open in Scotland on a Sunday…doesn’t sound secular at all to me…
and I went to an old firm game once…the level of sectarian hatred was off the scale compared to the Manchester derbies I attended during the 70’s and 80’s…
@M27Holts
Sunday Opening is/was a big issue, but more in the western isles and on the west coast of Scotland. Most of Scotland has had Sunday Opening for donkey’s.
The supermarket chain Tesco are planning on opening on Sundays in Stornoway on the Isle of Lewis, and it’s got the Wee-Frees in a stushie [translation: ministers of the United Free Church of Scotland are angry]. But they are a tiny, but vocal, minority.
The problem is one of reporting, IMO. The BBC have a habit of giving the nutters a voice in the interest of “balance” (witness Brexit) – but it gives a skewed picture of majority views.
Take media coverage of the Terminally Ill Adults (End of Life) Bill. 75% of British people surveyed supported legalising assisted suicide. 14% were against. But the media gave airtime to various religious figures who, surprise, surprise, were unanimously against it. I question why religious “leaders” should even be asked for comment. What the **** do they know about anything, any more than the average arsehole on the street? Who do they actually represent?
As far as bums-on-pews and people answering “no religion” on the census go, Scotland is the most secular region of the UK.
Think I put Jedi for a bit of a laarf…
I do shout at the telly a lot when they wheel out some clown in a cassock to spout absolute balderdash about really incredibly important secular issue. Thats the problem with the religious spunk mongrels, always telling other people what to do.
They should put me on telly, and I would immediately just say…oy peoples, just get on with doing what you like, as long as it isn’t illegal. And yes, choosing to end your life if you feel that you don’t want to put your loved ones through the agony of watching you die in agony! make it legal, it’s the only sensible thing to do…
It isn’t the media’s fault, if people want to know what god sez about suicide. I mean, sure, the selected priest should expect to be grilled for a rigorous explanation of what “god” is and how the priest came to know what it thinks about anything, but of course people don’t want to see that either – even I would begrudge the time wasted on that. Just get it over with — “… and here’s Reverend Peter Asty posing as an authority on god’s wishes! What do you think, padre, OK with god if you off yerself, or not? Any chance for, like, a second opinion from Shiva?”
Aye, tge Flying Spaghetti monster should be allowed to noodleas much as them…
arbeyu: Addendum to your correct comment that Scotland is the most secular region of the UK, my hometown of Aberdeen is the most secular region of Scotland!
Here’s how I feel when I see a cassocked cockwomble cleric being asked for their opinion on a secular matter…
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QS06cLEyowg&ab_channel=MikeHunt
If the BBC is going to wheel out a bishop for their opinion, then (a) they should introduce it thusly: “We approached the Church of England for their opinion on what their god thinks about it”, and (b) should follow it up with a response from an actual philosopher. Or maybe a scaffy (dustbin man). Anyone that they present as being as equally or more so an expert than the cleric.
Aye. My degree is in Computing and applied Mathematics. However, the none subject of Theology was also a degree you could take…the titles of some of the Theological PHD theses used to make me laugh out loud…I used to ask them of they had considered a thesis on the holyness of Mary Magdalens Knicker Gusset..since that may have contained Jesus jizz!
SoG, Has Aberdeen not got a mosque?
Father Jack Hackett…my favourite cleric definately…
@M27Holts
Sure, Aberdeen has a mosque.
And there are LOTS of African churches (or if not specifically African, then at least attended by mostly Africans). Within minutes’ walk of where I live, there’s a Redeemed Christian Church of God, a Better Life Ministry, a Watchman Charismatic Renewal Movement, the Victoria Gospel Hall, and an Elim Foursquare Gospel (not African, but the only people I’ve seen going there are).
(SoG will no doubt be able to pin down where I live to within a few streets from that list!)
Once you have a mosque….before you know it they will be shutting down the boozers like in lots of areas of Yorkshire and the Midlands….
Try walking past the Mosque on a friday afternoon with your mrs in a Ra-Ra skirt showing her long shapely legs off and low cut blouse with no bra…see how secular Aberdeen is then…
@M27Holts
Dude!?
Firstly, Scotland has its own home-grown religious extremists – the Wee Frees – who can be every bit as anti-alcohol, anti-dancing, anti-music, anti-sex, anti-gay and generally anti-fun as the maddest of mullahs… And who have singularly failed to make any dent in Scottish hedonism.
Secondly, the Muslim population in Scotland as a whole is low – and they are a tiny minority in Aberdeen.
I’m not worried that either Muslims or Wee Frees will spoil the fun.
Ahh, I have a few friends who live in Bolton. And in the past 20 years the white population is moving into the areas away from the mosques which become Pakistani majority areas. Non muslim women get harrassed in such areas and all the pubs close…Culture war on my doorstop….my favorite rock venue pub was closed due to it’s proximity to the large mosque in Moses Gate…