I’ve been reading several stories in the Brit press about people being arrested (even jailed) for drug possession of cannabis for having a few grams in their pockets. In Toronto I’ll walk to my local cannabis store, buy an ounce, and walk home down the Main Street legally smoking some of my purchase.
So “civilized” countries can persecute and prosecute in bizarre and unfair ways. Although I’d still crucify megalomaniacal Jesus and Mohammed…
@Jesus F Iscariot. Yup, absolutely ridiculous law. Racist too, when you realise that cannabis is a sacred herb to the Rastafarians and forms part of their ceremonies just as wine is sacred to Catholics, Anglicans & other Christian groups.
Look, it’s like this: China is way more like Islam than France is. Yes it skips the whole Allah thing but it’s got the absolutism down. Hell no Mo isn’t about to pick a fight with them, they’re brothas from anotha motha.
Pedantry alert! Paul Seed: Rastafarians are not a race, so your attribution of racism is not valid. I concede that most Rastas are likely to be of Caribbean mixed-race heritage, but I am reasonably certain that most people of that heritage identify with some variety of Christianity, if only nominally.
And to add to what Son of Glenner said:
I think Rastafaris are allowed to possess small quantities of marihuana necessary for immediate use. So, accomodations for another branch of established religion are made, yet again.
I agree that this week’s cartoon isn’t “funny haha” in the way that they usually are, but it is a funny situation all the same, in the sense of “funny peculiar”, and deserves to be aired.
Why does the plight of the Uighur Muslims attract so little attention in countries in the Middle East, North Africa, and Asia where there are large Muslim majorities. No doubt their leaders have been bought off by Chinese money but what about the population at large – why are there no mass protests?
In response to cp’s question I imagine it is because the monkeys (not racist, I mean simple morons) we see jumping up and down and burning flags Don’t have an original thought in their heads They scream “death to France” cos someone has wound them up and pointed them in that direction. They would scream “death to China” if the right people told them to, but it is not in the interests of those people to do so, for whatever reasons. The utter stupidity of crowds (of Muslims)
Thanks to MattR and Laripu. Yes, one protest in one country involving a few thousand people. Though of course there might have been others that we haven’t seen reported. But I’ve seen no sign of there having been a lot of popular support anywhere against the Chinese government policy in that region.
Could it be that most people in muslim-majority countries are brought up to follow without question their religious leaders, and perhaps political leaders also? But that can’t be the whole story as in recent years there have been mass protests (about other things) in countries like Turkey, Egypt, Tunisia and Iran. I’m still a bit puzzled.
China and the Uighurs is terrible, but the Chinese are just catching up to the antebellum Americans.
While Southern USA was building its wealth through primary production on the backs of slave labourers, Northern USA capitalists were busy stealing technology from Britain. That stolen technology allowed the North to become wealthier than the South and to begin the campaign to end slavery.
That fourth panel amounts to: “not MY people; not MY problem” … except that they ARE your people, Mo, just separated from you by a few thousand miles. Mo, are you going to whine about the supposed persecution your religion suffers under Only When It’s Convenient?
Similarly, France was among those western countries leading the condemnation of the treatment of Rohingya muslims in Burma, calling it ‘genocide’… Why that is less significant than small-French-outfit-publishes-something-offensive is baffling.
in response to cp’s question: I don’t think you have to be specifically brought up to follow religious leaders. I think it’s just human nature to let the opinions of loud (assholeish) people in positions of authority dominate the discourse. Speaking historically and even evolutionarily, there’s social and psychological costs to challenging this stuff, and for most people most of the time, it isn’t worth it. (similarly, there’s practical and immediate benefits from amplifying it, and so a lot of people do that). Fortunately, I don’t think human nature is immutable. Going along with reason and ethics instead of loudness is the new-and-improved-human-nature way of doing things. Well, not really new – we’ve been variously trying it out for all of recorded history already – but we’re still nowhere near all there yet.
Wish I could click a <3 somewhere to show my appreciation for this comic, and the mind-opening comments.
On a less thoughtful note, why do the Mussulmaniacs even work themselves up so much over these cartoons. Can they not get it through their heads that 5.2 billion people in the world, including the cartoonists in question, don't believe in their God or follow their system, therefore aren't subject to taboos regarding depiction of Mohammad.
If they're going to be violently offended over this, shouldn't they be equally-violently offended over French people drinking wine, eating pig meat, not praying on Fridays, not fasting during Ramadan, etc. etc.
Years ago at a film festival, I saw The Ten Conditions of Love, which centred on the mistreatment and oppression of the Uighurs, and featured a Q&A with the film’s primary subject Rebiya Kadeer.
I’ll never forget that event, not only because the Chinese government were pissing up a storm that the film was being screened, on top of the fact that she was being hosted and permitted to say what she wanted, but because one of the people in the crowd asked what I can only describe as an embarrassing Karen question.
Basically, she wanted to know why as a mother Kadeer had abandoned her children to pursue a political cause, some of whom had been arrested as political prisoners, stating her actions were “unnatural and even supernatural”. I can still hear the wailing emphasis on that part.
The film made it clear she wasn’t going to take the government’s bait, as they were using her children against her after they agreed with her statements. Her answer, while measured and polite, reflected this. The looks from the director, her translator and much of the crowd were not so polite; I’m certain that I was not the only one who audibly reacted with “the fuck?” when that question was asked.
It’s worth looking at more than the Western media (not the most unbiased) to find the truth about “oppression” of Uighurs in China – another way to look at it is that these are a group who were at risk of being radicalised and drawn into the terrorist world – so the “oppression” constitutes massive investment in their education to provide a buffer. Some obvious questions about the oppression; (i) how come this “oppressed” group were exempted from the 1-child policy? (ii) how come this “oppressed” group’s language still appears on Chinese currency notes? Try asking some *Chinese* about what this oppression consists of, rather than a country who currently imprisons 22% of the whole world’s prisoners… The reason it doesn’t attract the attention of Muslim leaders (who are typically too rich to be “bought off”) is that they actually went, saw what was happening, and realised that trusting Western media was a dubious strategy…
Glynn — That’s the Chinese position you are giving us, but no, I don’t think so. It’s certainly true that Western media has its biases. And it’s also true that the Uighurs were at risk of being radicalized. But the Chinese reaction has been way, way, way over the top, and it’s been reported too widely, from too many sources, to be easily discounted.
The contrary evidence you offer is remarkably weak and unpursuasive. The Chinese government is extremely concerned with image, and since ethnic minorities in general are exempt from the one-child policy it would not look good to officially change that for the Uighurs. But there have been many reports of forced abortions and sterilizations and children taken from parents. The languages on the currency are just for show, and are a matter of no importance (hardly anybody in China even uses currency any more) — if that’s one of your big arguments you are scraping the bottom of the barrel. As for the opinions of the Chinese people, you do realize, do you not, that the Chinese are the most tightly controlled and heavily propagandized people on the face of the planet, and have essentially no access to any information that does not meet the approval of the Chinese government? Given that most of them do not live in Xinjiang and do not know any Uighurs, why on Earth would you ever imagine they would have any idea what is going on there?
For anyone who is interested in what is going on there, this recent article in the Atlantic will scare the hell out of you. Because this is about much more than just the Uighurs!
JB. Perhaps the Chinese realise that any group of people who fanatically believe in a arabic version of Mein Kampf are possibly a danger to the rest of the non believing population and thus need to separated to prevent the events that we have just witnessed in France and Austria? It’s no reassurance to the western population that the powers that be can only act once the jihadis gave started killing…locking away lunatics before they run amok is the only sensible action…thus if you pledge allegiance to mo then incarceration should be inevitable? Orwell was right, you should anticipate crime and act upon it or is such action seemingly horrid till your wife or daughter is mindlessly slaughtered by a muslim maniac?
M27Holts — I agree with you about the danger of Islamic extremism. Europe, in a fit of virtue signalling following WWII, allowed mass immigration from Muslim countries, and I would argue that this was a ghastly mistake, one that Europeans will be suffering from for a long, long time. Nevertheless, what the Chinese are doing to the Uighurs — in the Uighurs’ own homeland at that! — is just nuts. Read the article. As I said, the implications of what they are doing extend far beyond the Uighurs.
Jesus & Mo (the characters) are absurd, blinkered, and oddly very sweet. J&M (the cartoon) is brilliant: sharp, delicious, irresistible. Salman Rushdie
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Jesus and Mo make the world a better place, bless their little hearts. Ophelia Benson
In a world defined by outrage and offence and liberal spinelessness, Jesus and Mo is a treasure, whose value we should never fail to recognize. Read them. Laugh. And think. Kenan Malik
The brilliant, celebrated, freaking hilarious atheist comic strip ... Greta Christina
...rays of sanity in a befuddled world. Keri Hulme
The liveliest depictions of Muhammad currently available... Malise Ruthven
J & Mo is the funniest and most consistently thought-provoking cartoon strip on the Net. In a saner world, it would run in a major newspaper. Nelson Jones, Heresy Corner
Consistently amusing, frequently thought-provoking and often heart-warming. New Humanist
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Wittily captures much of the absurdity of religious apologetics. Mano Singham
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Often hilarious, frequently wry, these cartoons do what all the best cartoons do: they tell the truth through humour. Terry Sanderson, NSS President
...a wonderfully acid British cartoonist... Nick Cohen
I love the scrappy mockery of Jesus and Mo. Freedom of speech
includes the freedom to mock any person, any thing, any activity, and
any belief -- and J&M stands up for this unflinchingly Richard Stallman
...empowering, important and deeply progressive, not to mention hilarious... Council of Ex-Muslims
August 28, 2013
Relative justice.
I’ve been reading several stories in the Brit press about people being arrested (even jailed) for drug possession of cannabis for having a few grams in their pockets. In Toronto I’ll walk to my local cannabis store, buy an ounce, and walk home down the Main Street legally smoking some of my purchase.
So “civilized” countries can persecute and prosecute in bizarre and unfair ways. Although I’d still crucify megalomaniacal Jesus and Mohammed…
Oppress Christianists and Islamists!
Funny that. I’m guessing Pakistan’s man in Beijing is pretty safe from being called back.
@Jesus F Iscariot. Yup, absolutely ridiculous law. Racist too, when you realise that cannabis is a sacred herb to the Rastafarians and forms part of their ceremonies just as wine is sacred to Catholics, Anglicans & other Christian groups.
Look, it’s like this: China is way more like Islam than France is. Yes it skips the whole Allah thing but it’s got the absolutism down. Hell no Mo isn’t about to pick a fight with them, they’re brothas from anotha motha.
Ophelia, I think you’ve nailed it.
Autocratic societies just love each other.
And people love their autocrats, as long as it’s someone else getting oppressed.
Lets never forget the “brothers in hate” fascination the Nazis have with Islam. Truth will sound like “hate speech” to those who hate the truth.
Pedantry alert! Paul Seed: Rastafarians are not a race, so your attribution of racism is not valid. I concede that most Rastas are likely to be of Caribbean mixed-race heritage, but I am reasonably certain that most people of that heritage identify with some variety of Christianity, if only nominally.
And to add to what Son of Glenner said:
I think Rastafaris are allowed to possess small quantities of marihuana necessary for immediate use. So, accomodations for another branch of established religion are made, yet again.
I agree that this week’s cartoon isn’t “funny haha” in the way that they usually are, but it is a funny situation all the same, in the sense of “funny peculiar”, and deserves to be aired.
Why does the plight of the Uighur Muslims attract so little attention in countries in the Middle East, North Africa, and Asia where there are large Muslim majorities. No doubt their leaders have been bought off by Chinese money but what about the population at large – why are there no mass protests?
Turks protesting for the Uighurs:
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-china-xinjiang-turkey/turkish-protesters-march-in-support-of-uighurs-after-ozil-comments-idUSKBN1YO2CB
But:
https://www.voanews.com/extremism-watch/uighurs-concerned-china-luring-turkey-silence-xinjiang
In response to cp’s question I imagine it is because the monkeys (not racist, I mean simple morons) we see jumping up and down and burning flags Don’t have an original thought in their heads They scream “death to France” cos someone has wound them up and pointed them in that direction. They would scream “death to China” if the right people told them to, but it is not in the interests of those people to do so, for whatever reasons. The utter stupidity of crowds (of Muslims)
Thanks to MattR and Laripu. Yes, one protest in one country involving a few thousand people. Though of course there might have been others that we haven’t seen reported. But I’ve seen no sign of there having been a lot of popular support anywhere against the Chinese government policy in that region.
Could it be that most people in muslim-majority countries are brought up to follow without question their religious leaders, and perhaps political leaders also? But that can’t be the whole story as in recent years there have been mass protests (about other things) in countries like Turkey, Egypt, Tunisia and Iran. I’m still a bit puzzled.
China and the Uighurs is terrible, but the Chinese are just catching up to the antebellum Americans.
While Southern USA was building its wealth through primary production on the backs of slave labourers, Northern USA capitalists were busy stealing technology from Britain. That stolen technology allowed the North to become wealthier than the South and to begin the campaign to end slavery.
And it’s only getting worse.
That fourth panel amounts to: “not MY people; not MY problem” … except that they ARE your people, Mo, just separated from you by a few thousand miles. Mo, are you going to whine about the supposed persecution your religion suffers under Only When It’s Convenient?
‘Cuz that’s sure how it looks.
RE:Roj Blake
And the North was getting rich financing the slave trade and the importing of the slaves and the English did a lot of the slave trade also.
Hmm, Eli Whitney probably made a bundle off the cotton gin and selling arms to the Union.
The slave trade also financed the Dutch Golden Age.
Similarly, France was among those western countries leading the condemnation of the treatment of Rohingya muslims in Burma, calling it ‘genocide’… Why that is less significant than small-French-outfit-publishes-something-offensive is baffling.
in response to cp’s question: I don’t think you have to be specifically brought up to follow religious leaders. I think it’s just human nature to let the opinions of loud (assholeish) people in positions of authority dominate the discourse. Speaking historically and even evolutionarily, there’s social and psychological costs to challenging this stuff, and for most people most of the time, it isn’t worth it. (similarly, there’s practical and immediate benefits from amplifying it, and so a lot of people do that). Fortunately, I don’t think human nature is immutable. Going along with reason and ethics instead of loudness is the new-and-improved-human-nature way of doing things. Well, not really new – we’ve been variously trying it out for all of recorded history already – but we’re still nowhere near all there yet.
Wish I could click a <3 somewhere to show my appreciation for this comic, and the mind-opening comments.
On a less thoughtful note, why do the Mussulmaniacs even work themselves up so much over these cartoons. Can they not get it through their heads that 5.2 billion people in the world, including the cartoonists in question, don't believe in their God or follow their system, therefore aren't subject to taboos regarding depiction of Mohammad.
If they're going to be violently offended over this, shouldn't they be equally-violently offended over French people drinking wine, eating pig meat, not praying on Fridays, not fasting during Ramadan, etc. etc.
Good job 🙂
Years ago at a film festival, I saw The Ten Conditions of Love, which centred on the mistreatment and oppression of the Uighurs, and featured a Q&A with the film’s primary subject Rebiya Kadeer.
I’ll never forget that event, not only because the Chinese government were pissing up a storm that the film was being screened, on top of the fact that she was being hosted and permitted to say what she wanted, but because one of the people in the crowd asked what I can only describe as an embarrassing Karen question.
Basically, she wanted to know why as a mother Kadeer had abandoned her children to pursue a political cause, some of whom had been arrested as political prisoners, stating her actions were “unnatural and even supernatural”. I can still hear the wailing emphasis on that part.
The film made it clear she wasn’t going to take the government’s bait, as they were using her children against her after they agreed with her statements. Her answer, while measured and polite, reflected this. The looks from the director, her translator and much of the crowd were not so polite; I’m certain that I was not the only one who audibly reacted with “the fuck?” when that question was asked.
Cassandra, click on top right “Patreon” to show your appreciation 🙂
It’s worth looking at more than the Western media (not the most unbiased) to find the truth about “oppression” of Uighurs in China – another way to look at it is that these are a group who were at risk of being radicalised and drawn into the terrorist world – so the “oppression” constitutes massive investment in their education to provide a buffer. Some obvious questions about the oppression; (i) how come this “oppressed” group were exempted from the 1-child policy? (ii) how come this “oppressed” group’s language still appears on Chinese currency notes? Try asking some *Chinese* about what this oppression consists of, rather than a country who currently imprisons 22% of the whole world’s prisoners… The reason it doesn’t attract the attention of Muslim leaders (who are typically too rich to be “bought off”) is that they actually went, saw what was happening, and realised that trusting Western media was a dubious strategy…
Glynn — That’s the Chinese position you are giving us, but no, I don’t think so. It’s certainly true that Western media has its biases. And it’s also true that the Uighurs were at risk of being radicalized. But the Chinese reaction has been way, way, way over the top, and it’s been reported too widely, from too many sources, to be easily discounted.
The contrary evidence you offer is remarkably weak and unpursuasive. The Chinese government is extremely concerned with image, and since ethnic minorities in general are exempt from the one-child policy it would not look good to officially change that for the Uighurs. But there have been many reports of forced abortions and sterilizations and children taken from parents. The languages on the currency are just for show, and are a matter of no importance (hardly anybody in China even uses currency any more) — if that’s one of your big arguments you are scraping the bottom of the barrel. As for the opinions of the Chinese people, you do realize, do you not, that the Chinese are the most tightly controlled and heavily propagandized people on the face of the planet, and have essentially no access to any information that does not meet the approval of the Chinese government? Given that most of them do not live in Xinjiang and do not know any Uighurs, why on Earth would you ever imagine they would have any idea what is going on there?
For anyone who is interested in what is going on there, this recent article in the Atlantic will scare the hell out of you. Because this is about much more than just the Uighurs!
JB. Perhaps the Chinese realise that any group of people who fanatically believe in a arabic version of Mein Kampf are possibly a danger to the rest of the non believing population and thus need to separated to prevent the events that we have just witnessed in France and Austria? It’s no reassurance to the western population that the powers that be can only act once the jihadis gave started killing…locking away lunatics before they run amok is the only sensible action…thus if you pledge allegiance to mo then incarceration should be inevitable? Orwell was right, you should anticipate crime and act upon it or is such action seemingly horrid till your wife or daughter is mindlessly slaughtered by a muslim maniac?
M27Holts — I agree with you about the danger of Islamic extremism. Europe, in a fit of virtue signalling following WWII, allowed mass immigration from Muslim countries, and I would argue that this was a ghastly mistake, one that Europeans will be suffering from for a long, long time. Nevertheless, what the Chinese are doing to the Uighurs — in the Uighurs’ own homeland at that! — is just nuts. Read the article. As I said, the implications of what they are doing extend far beyond the Uighurs.