I hadn’t heard the term DARVO before, and I will now use it elsewhere. Thanks for that, Author.
It seems to be the current preferred strategy of dictators, authoritarians, and would-be dictators. I’m thinking specifically of Trump and Putin, but I’m sure there are others.
If you’ve heard the term “gaslighting”, DARVO seems to be gaslighting++.
Until the clergy become objects of ridicule, we will never be rid of them….Father Dougal Mcguire is my all time favorite priest, followed closely by Father Jack Hackett…excellent caricatures indeed…
M27Holts, I like the representation of priests in Sting’s song “All This Time”: “fussing and flapping in priestly black like a murder of crows”. There aren’t many atheist songs; this is one by a countryman of yours. My favorite line is the last: “Men go crazy in congregations. They only get better one by one.”
I looked out across
The river today
I saw a city in the fog
And an old church tower
Where the seagulls play
Saw the sad shire horses
Walking home in the sodium light
Saw two priests on the ferry
October geese on a cold winter’s night
And all this time
The river flowed
Endlessly,
To the sea.
Two priests came round
Our house tonight
One young, one old,
To offer prayers for the dying,
To serve the final rite
One to learn, one to teach
Which way the cold wind blows
Fussing and flapping in priestly black
Like a murder of crows
And all this time
The river flowed
Endlessly,
To the sea.
If I had my way
I’d take a boat from the river
And I’d bury the old man
I’d bury him at sea
Blessed are the poor
For they shall inherit the earth
Better to be poor
Than a fat man in the eye of a needle
As these words were spoken
I swear I hear the old man laughing
What good is a used up world,
And how could it be worth having?
And all this time
The river flowed
Endlessly,
To the sea.
All this time
The river flowed
Father, if Jesus exists,
Then how come he never lived here?
Teachers told us
The Romans built this place
They built a wall and a temple
And an edge of the empire Garrison Town
They lived and they died
They prayed to their gods
But the stone gods did not make a sound
And their empire crumbled
Till all that was left
Were the stones the workmen found
And all this time
The river flowed
In the falling light
Of a northern sun
If I had my way
I’d take a boat from the river
Men go crazy in congregations
They only get better one by one
One by one
One by one, by one
One by one
That was way too serious. While we’re at it, here’s a funnier representation of priests. It’s from Canada, from the early 90s. It was an excellent sketch comedy show called Codco, from Newfoundland. Initially the CBC refused to air this:
Laripu. Watch Father Ted, whatever way you can. The three priests are hilarious…Father Ted Crilly , Dougal mcguire and Jack Hackett….fecking hilarious…
M27Holts, we watched the first two episodes of season 1. Pretty good. The humor is a bit dated, but that’s to be expected since it’s from the 90s. Still funny. We’ll slowly work our way through all of them in time.
I was going to ask whether the Irish were offended by it, but then I saw that most of the people involved were Irish.
I do recognise the phenomenon: (at least in NL) the most and best Yid/Jew jokes were by Jews, and, especially in the first decades after WWII, were made by he few Jewish survivors (of whom quite a few became comedians).
Far more than half of the jokes by, eg. Max Tailleur, would now be a reason to cancel the entire platform that dared to aire it!
For many years, Irish-born Dave Allen was a well-known comedian on British TV. He was openly and proudly atheist and much of his comedy material was anti-clerical, sending up religion in general and the RC Church in particular. He was very popular in the UK, I believe some of his shows were exported to other English-speaking countries such as Australia, but I guess not to the grand old US of A.
He died, relatively young, only 68, in 2005, just a few months before the J&M strip started. Reincarnation, Author? You can still find some of his comedy on YouTube.
Aye. He particularly had it in for the ridiculous apartheid culture of northern Ireland in the 1970’s. Usually the ridiculously pompous Reverand Ian Paisley or some stupid catholic cardinal or a vatican official…
Dr John, that phenomenon is still the case in North America. Members of a group can make jokes that people outside the group cannot, without appearing to be mean-spirited.
When I was a teenager, I made this joke, but only ever to other Jews:
Q: How do you get a bunch of Jews into a Volkswagen?
A: In the ashtray.
It’s an ugly joke from anyone. If a non-Jew made that joke around me, I would have responded with truly ugly sarcasm.
There is one comedian, John Mulaney, that could get away with making jokes about his Jewish wife. Not any more: they’re divorced. Either way, he’s very funny.
On an individual level self-deprecating humor is generally pretty safe, but even when no modern woke sensitivities are involved you have to be careful with humor at the expense of other people or you can come off as mean-spirited. I suppose our attitude towards group humor can be considered an extension of this, but I prefer the wild-West approach where it’s OK to be mean as long as it’s funny, and even if it isn’t funny people are thick-skinned enough that they can shrug it off rather than clutching their pearls and shrieking.
I find that most situation comedies get better once you get into the characters. Another classic is “Friday Night Dinner” a comedy about a Jewish family. My sons think its hilarious because the father Martin is a Jewish version of me and to be fair I think they are probably right…
Jesus & Mo (the characters) are absurd, blinkered, and oddly very sweet. J&M (the cartoon) is brilliant: sharp, delicious, irresistible. Salman Rushdie
Jesus and Mo cartoons are wonderfully funny and true. Richard Dawkins
Jesus and Mo make the world a better place, bless their little hearts. Ophelia Benson
In a world defined by outrage and offence and liberal spinelessness, Jesus and Mo is a treasure, whose value we should never fail to recognize. Read them. Laugh. And think. Kenan Malik
The brilliant, celebrated, freaking hilarious atheist comic strip ... Greta Christina
...rays of sanity in a befuddled world. Keri Hulme
The liveliest depictions of Muhammad currently available... Malise Ruthven
J & Mo is the funniest and most consistently thought-provoking cartoon strip on the Net. In a saner world, it would run in a major newspaper. Nelson Jones, Heresy Corner
Consistently amusing, frequently thought-provoking and often heart-warming. New Humanist
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Wittily captures much of the absurdity of religious apologetics. Mano Singham
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Often hilarious, frequently wry, these cartoons do what all the best cartoons do: they tell the truth through humour. Terry Sanderson, NSS President
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any belief -- and J&M stands up for this unflinchingly Richard Stallman
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September 1, 2021
I hadn’t heard the term DARVO before, and I will now use it elsewhere. Thanks for that, Author.
It seems to be the current preferred strategy of dictators, authoritarians, and would-be dictators. I’m thinking specifically of Trump and Putin, but I’m sure there are others.
If you’ve heard the term “gaslighting”, DARVO seems to be gaslighting++.
In other light news ( 😉 ), I read this today: https://patch.com/georgia/across-ga/39-southern-baptist-pastors-credibly-accused-sex-abuse-report
Hope you test negative soon!
Get well soon, Author. Here’s hoping you stay asymptomatic and that you don’t get any recurrences. Well done on today’s cartoon, too — as usual.
Is Author ill?
I thought he created the Daleks?
Who?
Laripu…14 million members….couldn’t put it better myself…ahaha…
Jesus and Mo, the DARVO boys.
Until the clergy become objects of ridicule, we will never be rid of them….Father Dougal Mcguire is my all time favorite priest, followed closely by Father Jack Hackett…excellent caricatures indeed…
Perfectly exemplified by the recent Ricky Gervais routine that has drawn such ire from TRAs
Ricky Gervais isn’t aware that women have penises. They’re just smaller.
M27Holts, I like the representation of priests in Sting’s song “All This Time”: “fussing and flapping in priestly black like a murder of crows”. There aren’t many atheist songs; this is one by a countryman of yours. My favorite line is the last: “Men go crazy in congregations. They only get better one by one.”
I looked out across
The river today
I saw a city in the fog
And an old church tower
Where the seagulls play
Saw the sad shire horses
Walking home in the sodium light
Saw two priests on the ferry
October geese on a cold winter’s night
And all this time
The river flowed
Endlessly,
To the sea.
Two priests came round
Our house tonight
One young, one old,
To offer prayers for the dying,
To serve the final rite
One to learn, one to teach
Which way the cold wind blows
Fussing and flapping in priestly black
Like a murder of crows
And all this time
The river flowed
Endlessly,
To the sea.
If I had my way
I’d take a boat from the river
And I’d bury the old man
I’d bury him at sea
Blessed are the poor
For they shall inherit the earth
Better to be poor
Than a fat man in the eye of a needle
As these words were spoken
I swear I hear the old man laughing
What good is a used up world,
And how could it be worth having?
And all this time
The river flowed
Endlessly,
To the sea.
All this time
The river flowed
Father, if Jesus exists,
Then how come he never lived here?
Teachers told us
The Romans built this place
They built a wall and a temple
And an edge of the empire Garrison Town
They lived and they died
They prayed to their gods
But the stone gods did not make a sound
And their empire crumbled
Till all that was left
Were the stones the workmen found
And all this time
The river flowed
In the falling light
Of a northern sun
If I had my way
I’d take a boat from the river
Men go crazy in congregations
They only get better one by one
One by one
One by one, by one
One by one
That was way too serious. While we’re at it, here’s a funnier representation of priests. It’s from Canada, from the early 90s. It was an excellent sketch comedy show called Codco, from Newfoundland. Initially the CBC refused to air this:
https://youtu.be/PtEvJfAyGqU
I might have posted that link on J&M before, but it never gets old. 😀
Laripu. Watch Father Ted, whatever way you can. The three priests are hilarious…Father Ted Crilly , Dougal mcguire and Jack Hackett….fecking hilarious…
M27Holts, we’ll try it. Three seasons are available free (with ads) on Amazon Prime in the US.
Amazon Prime was how it was able to watch Fleabag, which I found very very funny. (My wife: less so. 🙂 )
M27Holts, we watched the first two episodes of season 1. Pretty good. The humor is a bit dated, but that’s to be expected since it’s from the 90s. Still funny. We’ll slowly work our way through all of them in time.
I was going to ask whether the Irish were offended by it, but then I saw that most of the people involved were Irish.
Laripu:
I do recognise the phenomenon: (at least in NL) the most and best Yid/Jew jokes were by Jews, and, especially in the first decades after WWII, were made by he few Jewish survivors (of whom quite a few became comedians).
Far more than half of the jokes by, eg. Max Tailleur, would now be a reason to cancel the entire platform that dared to aire it!
Dr J ~ Perfect example of free-speech advancing backwards.
My favourite episode is the one where Ted Crilly is trying to explain perspective to a completely bemused Dougal….comedy gold…
For many years, Irish-born Dave Allen was a well-known comedian on British TV. He was openly and proudly atheist and much of his comedy material was anti-clerical, sending up religion in general and the RC Church in particular. He was very popular in the UK, I believe some of his shows were exported to other English-speaking countries such as Australia, but I guess not to the grand old US of A.
He died, relatively young, only 68, in 2005, just a few months before the J&M strip started. Reincarnation, Author? You can still find some of his comedy on YouTube.
Aye. He particularly had it in for the ridiculous apartheid culture of northern Ireland in the 1970’s. Usually the ridiculously pompous Reverand Ian Paisley or some stupid catholic cardinal or a vatican official…
Dr John, that phenomenon is still the case in North America. Members of a group can make jokes that people outside the group cannot, without appearing to be mean-spirited.
When I was a teenager, I made this joke, but only ever to other Jews:
Q: How do you get a bunch of Jews into a Volkswagen?
A: In the ashtray.
It’s an ugly joke from anyone. If a non-Jew made that joke around me, I would have responded with truly ugly sarcasm.
There is one comedian, John Mulaney, that could get away with making jokes about his Jewish wife. Not any more: they’re divorced. Either way, he’s very funny.
On an individual level self-deprecating humor is generally pretty safe, but even when no modern woke sensitivities are involved you have to be careful with humor at the expense of other people or you can come off as mean-spirited. I suppose our attitude towards group humor can be considered an extension of this, but I prefer the wild-West approach where it’s OK to be mean as long as it’s funny, and even if it isn’t funny people are thick-skinned enough that they can shrug it off rather than clutching their pearls and shrieking.
M27Holts, we’ve seen four Father Ted episodes and we’re finding it funnier as it goes on. Thanks for letting me know about it.
While I’m here…here’s one I read recently:
A priest, a minister, and a rabbit walk into a blood bank.
The rabbit says, I think I might be a type O.
I find that most situation comedies get better once you get into the characters. Another classic is “Friday Night Dinner” a comedy about a Jewish family. My sons think its hilarious because the father Martin is a Jewish version of me and to be fair I think they are probably right…