@Steve Sherman : But of course, after all islam is to a large extent appropriated from said sources. However, the eschatological stories seems to have had a refurbishment at the PR departement. I usuallly summarise the fix: The Islamic heaven is more salubrious, and hell is more scorching. (Salubrious for the men, that is 😉 )
Cassanders: The Islamic heaven is more salubrious, and hell is more scorching. (Salubrious for the men, that is ???? )
You never heard that “virgins” is wrongly translated from ancient arabic writing (from the days before they added the “diacritical” upper-dashes), and the original text describes grapes instead?
In the hypothetical case that heaven really should exist, I would like to see the disappointment of the “heroes” when they receive their reward….
God has decided that the system of Heaven and Hell was just not working. Torturing prisoners had grown boring, and hymns of praise even more boring. So he has abolished Heaven and Hell and set up a new system of sequential reincarnation. When you die, your soul will go to the back of a line. When you reach the front of the line, you go into the next available human body.
He has declared a general amnesty for the residents of Hell, and put them into the line. Those who were good enough to get into Heaven, all twenty-seven of them, volunteered to go into the line as well, so they could teach virtue and goodness by example.
He hopes that we will have enough sense to treat each other well and care for the Earth. If not, we will just have to live in the mess. He is turning his attention to other galaxies, where he has other children to raise. He said, “You’re on your own now. It’s time to grow up.”
The Apocalypse of Peter, an early Christian text that was once widely read, describes in enthusiastic detail the hideous tortures inflicted on the sinners in Hell. However it also says that in the end God will show mercy on them, and that everyone will eventually end up in Heaven. It was perhaps for this reason that by the fifth century the book had been dropped from the Christian canon.
Some Dude:
I just heard some spoken Arabic yesterday.
I was listening the “Secular Jihadists from the Middle East” podcast episode 22 http://secularjihadists.libsyn.com/ep22-ensaf-haidar-author-wife-of-imprisoned-blogger-raif-badawi
Ensaf is currently living in Quebec so I guess she has picked up enough French to get by there but not much English, so the interview involved spoken Arabic & translations to & from English.
The podcast is done by 4 ex-muslims.
@Jim Baerg: thanks for the link! I haven’t listened to the entire podcast, but the intro is quite promising:
“In a world where God is dying, four heathens come to deliver the final nails in the coffin… From the depths of hell, Satan sends four puppets of the imperialist West and the Zionist Jews against God, Islam and tiny kittens to bring you their propaganda and conspire for a New World Order… This is ‘Secular Jihadists from the Middle East’ “.
@ Dr. John the Wipper. I am aware of quite a bit of the relvant research, e.g. “Corpus Coranicum” (Univ. of Berlin) and the work of “Christoph Luxenberg” (a pseudonym). The latter has worked on the lingustic base for the Quran. (“Die Syro-Aramäische Lesart….”) I cannot be a thorough peer of the work as such (I am not a linguist), but his claim that the reference to “virgins” in fact should allude to raisis, is stupid beyond belief. If anything it only demonstrates to what extent the good Luxenberg is a nerd. Bear in mind that the orally transmitted ( and later written) text should be inspiring for a profoundly belllingerent and expanding religion, -and the expansion should mainly be faciliitated by young and able men(sic) that obvioulsy had to be recruited from a variety of social strata. There is more than enough explicit reference to the sexual dimension of the “spoils of war”, and little if any interest for horticulture, neither in the Quran nor the Sunnah.
rjc:
It would seem quite hard to get enough virgins for all “heroes”.
I have heard it explained this way:
In lots of male-only communities (eg. army camps, prisons) sexual relief by necessity has to be male-male. The bullies will be the active parties, submitting the less fierce ones.
So, only the bullies retain their (anal) virginity.
When the heroes go to paradise, they find that there are 72 of those virgins, eagerly waiting to take turns on the newcomers…..
So, they attain real Islam, which translated into English means “submission”.
@rjc, I don’t think you should employ too much straightforward epistmic/rational considerations here. Bear in mind that you are considering a “magical universe”, and that God himself is considered omnipotent (Mo, on the other hand was only hyperpotent, according to the Ahadiths, but we can leave that out for now ;)). In this narrative, God is of course capable of producing _de novo_ all the houries he sees fit. If you for some reason find this thought “implausible”, check out the Islamic eschatology. Here is one source http://www.jannah.com/?misc=1 (You will of course have numerous, -and also conflicting interpretations). Also note, in the sweet thereafter, the omnipotent master is not satisfied with the mere praises from the blessed (as the “christian god” allegedly appears to be) -no,he will also produce some fresh legions of “praising creatures” EVERY DAY, whose sole purpose is to praise God himself 🙂 🙂
Cassandra: WARNING SPOILERS there is a TV serial called “Lucifer” which is a semi-comedy tale of the Fallen Angel’s wanderings about in USAlia when he takes time off from his job. In one episode, one of the humans who learn the truth about the cosmos meets one of the pair of gods who built it. The human thanks the god, once, with one sentence for the experience of life. It is never mentioned again.
That is how a creator should be praised. Once, quietly and sincerely by one person. That should suffice for any workman. Any sane workman.
jb, the elision of Peter makes little sense [no surprise there as almost nothing in their editorial policies makes sense] as the fat, old, White guys who determined what the final shape of the babblings should be could merely have removed the ending. Compared to what they did to “Genesis”, that would have been a small crime.
Perhaps Peter retains editorial control of his content?
Jesus & Mo (the characters) are absurd, blinkered, and oddly very sweet. J&M (the cartoon) is brilliant: sharp, delicious, irresistible. Salman Rushdie
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The brilliant, celebrated, freaking hilarious atheist comic strip ... Greta Christina
...rays of sanity in a befuddled world. Keri Hulme
The liveliest depictions of Muhammad currently available... Malise Ruthven
J & Mo is the funniest and most consistently thought-provoking cartoon strip on the Net. In a saner world, it would run in a major newspaper. Nelson Jones, Heresy Corner
Consistently amusing, frequently thought-provoking and often heart-warming. New Humanist
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Wittily captures much of the absurdity of religious apologetics. Mano Singham
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Often hilarious, frequently wry, these cartoons do what all the best cartoons do: they tell the truth through humour. Terry Sanderson, NSS President
...a wonderfully acid British cartoonist... Nick Cohen
I love the scrappy mockery of Jesus and Mo. Freedom of speech
includes the freedom to mock any person, any thing, any activity, and
any belief -- and J&M stands up for this unflinchingly Richard Stallman
...empowering, important and deeply progressive, not to mention hilarious... Council of Ex-Muslims
May 10, 2007
I was moved to tears.
A bit more graphic, but otherwise not all that different from the Christian Hell.
The tears ran down my legs
My bowels were moved.
Wow, the Koran is fucking metal.
Either that or it’s rather easy to replace Mo with a Nile fan for this comic. Just replace the punchline with:
“It sounds beautiful on vinyl.”
What a splendid comment, Mo! It makes me want to enjoy reading those chapters in the original language.
.-
Koranic poetry, don’t spoil it
Copied from a truck stop toilet
Random insane thoughts
From perverted sots
Dreaming of goats who in their laps sit.
Heads-up, this page claims I’m logged in as author!
I am (unfortunately) not author!
But that’s the best part! Believers get their kicks by thinking of all the wonderful torture being meted out to those whom they don’t like.
Have you ever heard spoken Arabic? I think those verses would sound even more aggressive in Arabic… I mean, poetically and beautifully aggressive.
@Steve Sherman : But of course, after all islam is to a large extent appropriated from said sources. However, the eschatological stories seems to have had a refurbishment at the PR departement. I usuallly summarise the fix: The Islamic heaven is more salubrious, and hell is more scorching. (Salubrious for the men, that is 😉 )
Cassanders:
The Islamic heaven is more salubrious, and hell is more scorching. (Salubrious for the men, that is ???? )
You never heard that “virgins” is wrongly translated from ancient arabic writing (from the days before they added the “diacritical” upper-dashes), and the original text describes grapes instead?
In the hypothetical case that heaven really should exist, I would like to see the disappointment of the “heroes” when they receive their reward….
There is no hell. There is only Montreal in winter.
I received a revelation from God last Thursday.
God has decided that the system of Heaven and Hell was just not working. Torturing prisoners had grown boring, and hymns of praise even more boring. So he has abolished Heaven and Hell and set up a new system of sequential reincarnation. When you die, your soul will go to the back of a line. When you reach the front of the line, you go into the next available human body.
He has declared a general amnesty for the residents of Hell, and put them into the line. Those who were good enough to get into Heaven, all twenty-seven of them, volunteered to go into the line as well, so they could teach virtue and goodness by example.
He hopes that we will have enough sense to treat each other well and care for the Earth. If not, we will just have to live in the mess. He is turning his attention to other galaxies, where he has other children to raise. He said, “You’re on your own now. It’s time to grow up.”
The Apocalypse of Peter, an early Christian text that was once widely read, describes in enthusiastic detail the hideous tortures inflicted on the sinners in Hell. However it also says that in the end God will show mercy on them, and that everyone will eventually end up in Heaven. It was perhaps for this reason that by the fifth century the book had been dropped from the Christian canon.
Some Dude:
I just heard some spoken Arabic yesterday.
I was listening the “Secular Jihadists from the Middle East” podcast episode 22
http://secularjihadists.libsyn.com/ep22-ensaf-haidar-author-wife-of-imprisoned-blogger-raif-badawi
Ensaf is currently living in Quebec so I guess she has picked up enough French to get by there but not much English, so the interview involved spoken Arabic & translations to & from English.
The podcast is done by 4 ex-muslims.
I attribute the continued existence of the Abrahamic religions to Stockholm Syndrome.
@Jim Baerg: thanks for the link! I haven’t listened to the entire podcast, but the intro is quite promising:
“In a world where God is dying, four heathens come to deliver the final nails in the coffin… From the depths of hell, Satan sends four puppets of the imperialist West and the Zionist Jews against God, Islam and tiny kittens to bring you their propaganda and conspire for a New World Order… This is ‘Secular Jihadists from the Middle East’ “.
Maybe someone else wants to check the link out 😉
@ Dr. John the Wipper. I am aware of quite a bit of the relvant research, e.g. “Corpus Coranicum” (Univ. of Berlin) and the work of “Christoph Luxenberg” (a pseudonym). The latter has worked on the lingustic base for the Quran. (“Die Syro-Aramäische Lesart….”) I cannot be a thorough peer of the work as such (I am not a linguist), but his claim that the reference to “virgins” in fact should allude to raisis, is stupid beyond belief. If anything it only demonstrates to what extent the good Luxenberg is a nerd. Bear in mind that the orally transmitted ( and later written) text should be inspiring for a profoundly belllingerent and expanding religion, -and the expansion should mainly be faciliitated by young and able men(sic) that obvioulsy had to be recruited from a variety of social strata. There is more than enough explicit reference to the sexual dimension of the “spoils of war”, and little if any interest for horticulture, neither in the Quran nor the Sunnah.
Does the koran indicate what species or sex the virgins are?
rjc:
It would seem quite hard to get enough virgins for all “heroes”.
I have heard it explained this way:
In lots of male-only communities (eg. army camps, prisons) sexual relief by necessity has to be male-male. The bullies will be the active parties, submitting the less fierce ones.
So, only the bullies retain their (anal) virginity.
When the heroes go to paradise, they find that there are 72 of those virgins, eagerly waiting to take turns on the newcomers…..
So, they attain real Islam, which translated into English means “submission”.
Ah, my bad,
I just hope this story is not convincing enough for our FreeFox to give it a try…
Barmaid: prepare. Yeah all: order one of your favorite on me!
@rjc, I don’t think you should employ too much straightforward epistmic/rational considerations here. Bear in mind that you are considering a “magical universe”, and that God himself is considered omnipotent (Mo, on the other hand was only hyperpotent, according to the Ahadiths, but we can leave that out for now ;)). In this narrative, God is of course capable of producing _de novo_ all the houries he sees fit. If you for some reason find this thought “implausible”, check out the Islamic eschatology. Here is one source http://www.jannah.com/?misc=1 (You will of course have numerous, -and also conflicting interpretations). Also note, in the sweet thereafter, the omnipotent master is not satisfied with the mere praises from the blessed (as the “christian god” allegedly appears to be) -no,he will also produce some fresh legions of “praising creatures” EVERY DAY, whose sole purpose is to praise God himself 🙂 🙂
Cassandra: WARNING SPOILERS there is a TV serial called “Lucifer” which is a semi-comedy tale of the Fallen Angel’s wanderings about in USAlia when he takes time off from his job. In one episode, one of the humans who learn the truth about the cosmos meets one of the pair of gods who built it. The human thanks the god, once, with one sentence for the experience of life. It is never mentioned again.
That is how a creator should be praised. Once, quietly and sincerely by one person. That should suffice for any workman. Any sane workman.
jb, the elision of Peter makes little sense [no surprise there as almost nothing in their editorial policies makes sense] as the fat, old, White guys who determined what the final shape of the babblings should be could merely have removed the ending. Compared to what they did to “Genesis”, that would have been a small crime.
Perhaps Peter retains editorial control of his content?