So, saying they “are not true Muslims” is bad, which means they are true Muslims, which means that all Muslims support, condone, accept, aid, succour and believe in the very, very bad guys? So, basically, one milliard Muslims are terrorists and terrorist facilitators?
That is something no one ever considered before. What an amazing revelation. No one has ever even dreamed of thinking such a though before.
I’m amazed.
I know transcribing Arabic words is subject to some flexibility in spelling, but I can’t figure out how the pronunciation of “fatwa” could require “an” as the indefinite article. Or was that just a typo?
Smee said: ‘I’m un-Islamic and an unbeliever full stop. Whats the “moderate” Muslim’s interpretation of the Koran say about me?’
Same as it always was. You have refused the call to submit to Allah, and are therefore an enemy, to be killed on sight. You don’t even have the choice of dhimmitude, since you are not ‘of the book’.
Author, thankyou for the linked article. I could never quite put my finger on what bugged me about this argument and its modernised/liberalised form of ‘holier-than-thou’. Besides which, it seems more than a bit historically inaccurate to suggest that Islam has always been all about peace and love and sunflowers.
Can’t help feeling a little sorry for “moderate” muslims. They can’t win. Having said that, it is hilarious when they do venture to criticise IS on the basis that “that’s not what Islam is about”. Considering one of the fundamental tenets of being a muslim is to memorise the Quran and study the hadiths, you’d think they would at least have the faintest idea of what Mohammed was all about.
Takfir, when used in proportion
To the population, replaces abortion
Confiscate the possessions of the new infidel
Stone them just as well
Quote the Qur’an for profitable distortion.
Ah, takfir. Another Muslim word for me to absorb and understand. My bi friend D. commented thusly: “Saying that ISIS is not Islamic is like me claiming to be straight.”
You’ll notice that Boko Haram has slipped out of the news lately, overshadowed by beheadings of American journalists. Months after the abduction of the school girls, NONE have been rescued. Not one. Nigeria has hired a PR firm to try to improve its national image. I despair.
What’s funny is that a lot of Westerners have not yet realized that the amount of death and destruction in the middle east has got to the point where it is no longer seemly to make fun of it.
Author, sorry but no it isn’t. It still says ” … an fatwa” on the host’s copy.
Darwin, I have not forgotten the Boko shites and their atrocities. Nor have I forgotten the girls. I truly wish I could think of something to do for them but the suggestion of mass civil disobedience in the form of an unarmed civilian invasion didn’t go down well.
On the “no true Christian/Muslim/scotsman” fallacy: believers are divided into two, there are the True Believers and the False Believers. It is always the True Believers who get to say who is which.
I could claim to be a True Scotsman and to speak as an authority on what True Scotsmen are, do and believe and what they are and do not but all it takes is one More Truly True True Scotsman to rebut me and to point out my deficiencies in bona fides. Not being Scottish being a small one. Likewise, I am no true Muslim. I am not even a poor fake of a replica, ersatz facsimile of a Muslim so, like at least five out of six human-looking evil satanic zombies walking around, the Truly True Muslims want me dead.
Except the moderates, of course, who just want peace … with me dead.
But even were True Muslims Really Really Truly True True Muslims there is a subtle but serious flaw in all of their arguments.
Should we tell them that according to the Archangel Moroni, who really should know these things as he gets them from the horse’s mouth (or some part of the horse) , Mohammed was a raving liar and his trivial little collection of hate and porn is a pack of lies?
An archangel told Joseph Smith he was a prophet. Joseph Smith’s version of the books was a lot different from Mo’s and Joseph Smith was born lived and died long after Mo.
So that Kuran is not the latest, greatest and truest version. It’s a pack of lies from a liar and it’s not even *newsworthy*. It is not even the current version.
It has taken them over a hundred years and they still haven’t worked this out. So shouldn’t we tell them all?
Before they burn us into a molten puddle?
An archangel no less has told them that they are getting all upset over a fake.
Canneloni
“Smee said: ‘I’m un-Islamic and an unbeliever full stop. Whats the “moderate” Muslim’s interpretation of the Koran say about me?’
Same as it always was. You have refused the call to submit to Allah, and are therefore an enemy, to be killed on sight. You don’t even have the choice of dhimmitude, since you are not ‘of the book’.
I recommend that you wear a gorget at all times
My Dear Canneloni
Thanks for the warning! I shall keep a sharp look out for bearded loonies hiding amongst my roses! Although it’s difficult to distinguish between them and other garden pests, like slugs and greenfly; Don’t scoff some garden pests can be quite savage you know!
Ah, takfir. Another Muslim word for me to absorb and understand. My bi friend D. commented thusly: “Saying that ISIS is not Islamic is like me claiming to be straight.”
You’ll notice that Boko Haram has slipped out of the news lately, overshadowed by beheadings of American journalists. Months after the abduction of the school girls, NONE have been rescued. Not one. Nigeria has hired a PR firm to try to improve its national image. I despair.
After Rotherham and other Incidents in the UK, So as not to attract unjustified accusations of racism, I’m curious to know the islamic word for F**king the infidels children? Anyone know what it is it? Just in the interests of fitting into the multiculturalism groove of course!
I think IS is a fantastic development. It has renewed my optimism, and offers a real pathway forwards in dealing with extremism on its own terms – ie, extremely, with no quarter given or taken. It is certainly a huge improvement on Al-Quaida, not least because, thanks to their own arrogance and megalomania, you know exactly where the IS fuckers are.
Now that even conflict-phobic Obama has taken on board that the only rational strategy with IS is to bomb them into the afterlife they so keenly look forward to, pass the popcorn and let’s sit back and enjoy watching the masterminds of IS act out the irreducable interconnectedness of
A) standing on your hind legs and claiming geographical territory for the Eternal Caliphate, and
B) giving the Great Satan beautifully precise co-ordinates to target its drones and missiles.
It really doesn’t matter if enforcing a Final Solution on IS puts you in cahoots with ruthless bastards like Bashir al-Assad, arguably the catalyst if not the cause of the current conflict. We can postpone recriminations until the last anonymous, brain-dead Allah-hu-Akkbar-shouter lets go of life and his stupid flag (the one that reads ‘owi jowi joz’ in childish script).
And while it’s always distressing to consider collateral damage, in the long view it doesn’t really make a huge difference if some of ‘their’ women and children happen to get caught in the crossfire, either. They would only have had a short, rotten life ahead of them anyway. Cruel to be kind. Omelettes, eggs.
So dear IS fighter, keep your cowardly mask on, so you won’t be mistaken for an innocent bystander. Do keep beheading journalists and aid workers so we are not tempted to lose sight of what a disgusting crew of psychopaths you are. And do please keep waving that silly flag; the monochrome gives a lovely sharp focus on the night-sight, and it helps you stand out against the crosshairs.
smee, the word for “raping the infidels’ children” is “multiculturalism”.
Or maybe it’s the phrase : “tolerance for other peoples’ cultures”.
However, please do *NOT* make Rotherham and all of the other recent revelations about Muslims or even Asians. The sexual abuse of vulnerable children in “care” is a fact of life for those who have gone through The System. There has never been a Children’s Home without at least one diddler being protected, condoned, accepted and covered for by all of the other staff. It happens in every country. Go into a CH and ask the children, they will point him out. It happens in every era. Those in power take from those without it and little children are the most without that there can ever be.
Those who authorise CH’s are the elite, the wealthy, the legislators and the watchmen and the oversight of those people is done by those people; they are policed, when policed at all, by their peers. Many of those peers get a slice of the action, be it in kind or in profits or both.
It happens. It has always happened. Ask any child who has gone through The System and they will tell you it always will happen.
And good, honest, pillar-of-the-community, white folk have been doing it to the children in England for millennia.
The latest batch of “foreigners” (many of whose grandparents were probably English citizens) to get in on the act are only notable for being the latest and for being the latest to get caught.
Many, many children get through The System without ever being touched but millions of others get minced.
*Shrug*.
Shit rolls downhill and children without protectors swim in the lowest valleys.
There is nothing to be done about it.
I *CARE* but I am only me and I learned a long, long time ago that The System is invulnerable, eternal and fireproof.
Author could you fix the “start-bold-text” before “care” for me, please? I would thank you very much for that kindness.
And the “an” is still “an”.
I’m off to remember the children, with great sadness.
We should not mock. I have just spent an hour listening to a bunch of theologians, ethicists and philosophers trying to explain away the fact of evil. They tied themselves into knots and never explained how an omniscient and omnipotent god would allow such a thing to exist in his perfect creation. After all, if god made it, it must be perfect! Right!
So, my point is that when people, be they Christians, Muslims, Rastafarians or beievers in the great spaghetti monster, get down to talking theology, they are talking crap. It is not possible to have a learned discussion about that which does not exist.
Perhaps we should all feel sorry for poor old Mo for he is so confused.
Hotrats, one would almost imagine that you are not entirely, 100%, in agreement with IS’s aims and cherished beliefs? Could we take it then that you disagree, slightly, with a few of the finer points of their mission statements and vision?
LastResort you wouldn’t happen to have gone through The System by any chance? If so, my sympathies are extended.
You are correct in saying that mostly all peoples, countries, races, creeds and genders are guilty of abuse, or, more accurately, that a small minority of their members are and that a larger minority protect them. We mustn’t lose sight of the fact that evil kiddy-rapers come in all flavours.
smee, I, too, remember the girls and wish we could influence their fates for the better somehow. I just currently do not see a viable method that has much chance of success. Maybe if those northern Englishmen do got nuts and grab independence they will mobilise a police task force to do something. It would both give their divisiveness some legitimacy and keep their politicians from doing anything even more daft.
For a while.
And, friend smee not all bearded loonies are out to get you. Some of us are nice. Though I do take the comparison to garden pests as a great compliment, thank you.
And, LastResort , if the Koran is all lies and false prophecies and an outdated version, to boot, and if the original Mo’ is such a bare-faced liar, why do you suppose so many people think the opposite?
They can’t all have the wit of weetabix.
The wise Ken Kukec asked:“So, “The Takfir Paradox”?” .
Well spotted! Of course, that is the title of Episode thirteen, Season 9 of “The Really Much Newer Voyages” in which the Captains have to decide between bacon butties, B’Henji strejin and Vulcan plomeeks at the inauguration ceremony of Enterprise-QT. One of the more intense storylines of that year featuring the long-awaited return of The Teselecta.
Empiricist: Hotrats, one would almost imagine that you are not entirely, 100%, in agreement with IS’s aims and cherished beliefs? Could we take it then that you disagree, slightly, with a few of the finer points of their mission statements and vision?
Glad to see you managed to read between the lines to my carefully hidden subtext.
On the subject of caring, loving, sane, wonderful, beautiful, generous, fatherly, dedicated-to-your-welfare and protective deities … I have nothing to say but I did find this.
Speaking of religion and intelligence, it certainly took IS long enough to realise that they’d initially (pun intended) named themselves after an ancient Egyptian deity.
There is no god but Allah?
Stephen, have you read their imbecile of the week page? I would laugh heartily at his idiocy but unfortunately I have the required dangly bits so I am “allowed to”. Instead, I will sneer in contempt. And possibly send the link to my sister. I can think of few finer punishments for him.
Your Oglaf, Efogoto, is on topic and funny but I have worked with people who were sure that such things were NOT SFW. At least a couple of them were sure my relatives were high in the satanic hierarchy. That I cheerfully agreed with their assessments pissed off quite an assorted bunch.
But I do like the lovely Sithrak. He’s my kind of deity. Evil as possible and smart enough to mess with their heads. Sort of like the son of the Lightbringer and Loki on steroids.
And I offer this to Stephen : “… full name Ab? al-Q?sim Mu?ammad ibn ?Abd All?h ibn ?Abd al-Mu??alib ibn H?shim …”.
“… Born Mu?ammad ibn `Abd All?h …”. “… Other names Abu al-Qasim (Kunya) , Rasul (‘Messenger’) ‘The Prophet’ …” Follow the link, no mention of “Mustafa Baby-to-rape”.
… However this page does mention that the phrase “al-Mustafa” means “the chosen” so the Islamics do have some sort of a point, if you squint and don’t examine the thought processes too closely. It’s about as serious a point as saying that the “Hey, Zeus” joke in DH3 is an insult to the previous Speaker-to-Fairies but at least it does have some sort of vague legitimacy, unlike much of their ranting.
To say that Islamics are disgusted and upset by “Mustafa Shag” is rather disingenuous, though, as I know for a fact that the name has been the punchline of a particularly lame school-yard joke for at least half of a century. I heard it often enough in mine, along with other “Mustafa” lameness.
Mustafa Pish, Mustafa Shit, Mustafa Grope, Mustafa Banana, Mustafa Fag, Mustafa Beer, Mustafa Wank … and the even sillier, Mahatma Coat variations. There are many more that are floating in the dense, pseudo-holographic, quasi-quantum soup I use as a mind.
The Islamics are, therefore, at least fifty years too late to get all upppity.
Even if they do have some small cause.
But there is one additional note, Mo’ the baby-rapist (note: not one of his “official” names, *I* gave him that one) has at least 99 “official” names a lot of which sound like English words or phrases. Are the daft farts going to try to insist we don’t make jokes from *any* of them?
Even “Al kareem in my trews when I see a two-year-old girl”? A title which I suspect the old perve richly deserved.
Oh dear:
Isil fanatics ‘fear being killed by a woman will deprive them of virgins in paradise’…(from today’s Telegraph). Not afraid of big Al’s anger at the killing of women & children, but frightened of being killed by a wee girly, ’cause they won’t get any virgins. Reminds me of the gag about the suicide bomber who expected to get 72 virgins; when he woke up, he was in a Star Trek convention.
Holy Mackerel is that the time? Mustafa Sleep, then Mustafa Baconbutty.
Mustafa Senzohoomah about these things.
Mustahafa Spellchecka around here, somewhere.
What did the desperate Muslim say as the toilet doors were locked?
“Mustafa Wee. ”
What did the ISIS Muslim say before the wee girly killed him?
“Mustafa Mandoothat. ”
What did the dead virgin Muslim suicide bomber say when he saw the 72 raisins?
“Mustafa *S*H*A*A*A*A*G*G*G*G*!!!”
What did the dead virgin Christian say when he saw the 72 raisins?
“That’s nice. Thank you.”
What did the dead Christian say when he saw the 72 other virgins?
“You, too? That’s nice.”
What did the dead rat say when he saw the 72 raisins?
Nothing. Rats don’t talk. Dead ones even less.
Heard about the successful Muslim suicide bomber?
He woke up surrounded by nuns with rulers.
###############################
Anti-Pagan says of Pagans, “Oh, they’re those people who believe in trees.”
Pagan responds, “Of course we do, there’s one right over there.”
################################
Retic, n. A person who does not believe in the One True Faith, or one who
believes in a One True Faith different from the One True Faith espoused by the
person using the term. This is the modern gender-neutral version of the older terms Heretic and Sheretic The derivation is from the fact that Retics get True Believers so pissed off that they say “Die, you Retic!”
####################
WARNING: You are about to enter the “Real World”. Climate controls are non functional and there are no keyboard commands nor drop down menus.
There is no ‘undo’ function.
#########################
“The Puritan through Life’s sweet garden goes
To pluck the thorn and cast away the rose.”
[Kenneth Hare]
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And last words of wisdom on the subject:
In hypothetical sentences introduced by ‘if’ and referring to past time, where conditions are to be deemed ‘unfulfilled’, the verb will regularly be found in the pluperfect subjunctive, in both protasis and apodosis.
— Donet, “Principles of Elementary Latin Syntax”
“Judging from realistic simulations involving a sledgehammer and a common laboratory frog, we can assume it will be pretty bad.” – Dave Barry
################
Deuteronomy, 22
Verse 28 If a man find a damsel that is a virgin, which is not betrothed, and lay hold on her, and lie with her, and they be found;
V.29 Then the man that lay with her shall give unto the damsel’s father fifty shekels of silver, and she shall be his wife; because he hath humbled her, he may not put her away all his days.
V 30 A man shall not take his father’s wife, nor discover his father’s skirt.
.
So, no doing the laundry if you’re male, then? Fabulous.
My favourite quote from the Babble is this one. It is full of pathos, bathos, passion, angst, pain, joy, humanity and the sheer exuberance of life as she is meant to be lived. It is a tale of unquenchable sensuality, unending forgiveness, a rainbow of soft emotive expressions in a quilt of aromatic certitude and the absolute tip of the acme of the peak of angelic perfection of a wisdom so merciful, benign and rapturous it can only be truly true Truth in its truly truest form:
It is Numbers 3:47 and it reads so sweetly:
Thou shalt take five sicles for every bead, according to the weight of the sanctuary. A sicle hath twenty obols.
In hypothetical sentences introduced by ‘if’ and referring to past time, where conditions are to be deemed ‘unfulfilled’, the verb will regularly be found in the pluperfect subjunctive, in both protasis and apodosis.
Words of wisdom indeed, so glad to hear technical grammar terms being flung about at the C&B. English doesn’t have a pluperfect subjunctive form per se, unless you believe the following gag (apologies to regulars for the repost):
A traveller who is a seafood gourmet arrives in Boston for the first time, knowing there is a dish he has never tried. He leaves the airport and hails a cab, and he excitedly says to the cabbie, “Hey, I’m new in town. Can you tell me a good place to go to get scrod?” The cabbie replies, “Well, I’ve heard that question a lot over the years, but that’s the first time I’ve ever heard it in the pluperfect subjunctive.”
Just to trim off the crusts, protasis is the ‘if’ part in an ‘if-then’ statement; to confuse English learners, we put this in the present tense, even though it clearly refers to a future event (if it rains). apodosis is the rest of the statement, the ‘then’ part (we’ll go indoors).
Obama hailed his Arab allies, including Saudi Arabia. I quote:
Saudi Arabia has a criminal justice system based on a hardline and literal form of Sharia law reflecting a particular state-sanctioned interpretation of Islam.
The death penalty can be imposed for a wide range of offences including murder, rape, false prophecy, blasphemy, armed robbery, repeated drug use, apostasy, adultery, witchcraft and sorcery and can be carried out by beheading with a sword, or more rarely by firing squad, and sometimes by stoning.
The 345 reported executions between 2007 and 2010 were all carried out by public beheading.
the most gruesome beheadings are those carried out by the victim’s relatives where, lacking the professionalism of the public executioner, the condemned is repeatedly hacked and chopped until he dies.
What would be the difference between Saudi Arabia and a country run by Islamic State?
Gus there are two utterly *OBVIOUS* differences between SA and the IS-nuts:
1: SA is rich, wealthy and powerful because it supplies the USofA with oil
2: SA is (currently) our “friend” and therefore one of the GoodGuys(TM).
You obviously haven’t been paying close enough attention, friend. I recommend five thousand hours of FauxNews together with the reading of six hundred daily editions of “The Garudian” from England. Maybe “The Telegraph”, too.
Note, these are not for educational purposes, they are punishments. For education, I would suggest a ten-year’s supply of old “Sun” issues. And, if you survive that, the complete archive of the BBC’s “NewsNight” TV programme.
Mickey, the brew I drink is my “medication”. How else do you think I got to be like this?
And to be reasonable, no. Humans falling within five standard deviations of the top of the bell curve are advised not to, though it’s fine for sea squirts.
Spot on empiricist. I actually copypasted that comment straight from The Guardian.
Now, here’s a more challenging one for you: what if the IS fuckers all of a sudden changed strategy and decided to stay put and gain recognition as a lawful state in their current borders? And what if as a ‘token of good will’ they started selling their oil to NATO countries cheaper than the saudis do?
Why would either of those be “challenging” for me,Gus?
The IRA became the GoodGuys on Good Friday, or thereabouts. The vile, evil, commie, pinko, bastard, Red-menace from the Russian Evil Empire became our pals, and the GoodGuys. Those little buggers fine and wonderful folk from Japan are our very bestest friends and real GoodGuys.
Why, even those nasty revolting Colonials have a Special Relationship with us. Anyone can become one of the GoodGuys.
All it takes is a re-writing of history and a few denunciations of some lower echelon punks who did all the really, truly horrible bad stuff which, of course, the Aristocrats and Lords and Super-Bosses never even heard of.
Should IS-nuts, Bokjo-pukes or any other verminous sludge carve out a bit of ground, wave a flag and get “recognised” because they are the ones standing on the oil and buying them off is easier than killing them off, then they would become the GoodGuys and our pals and the hands of all of their diplomats and super-bosses would suddenly be clean.
Why would that be challenging?
Because it would gag a maggot?
Well, diplomacy is like that.
I am not. Which explains why I’m not in the diplomatic corps.
Well, then. Better get the forecast right. I wonder how many weathermen they go through? Probably not many, it is a fairly not-weathery place.
Beheading for “witchcraft”? Hmmm, best not send the wife there for a holiday ….
Firing squad for repeated drug use? Well, that is annoying. I am completely fucked in Summer without my Piriton. Come to think on it, a firing squad sounds like a good deal when the alternative is Summer without anti-hissies.
I’m not entirely sure I like the Saudi government and their laws, but I’m sure it is none of my business what they do to citizens and visitors. So long as I am never one of them.
It’s a pity. Some of those lunatic fringe places used to have monuments and artefacts testifying to over twelve millennia of human settlements and some eight millennia of history before the crud-wits destroyed it all. I would have liked to see some of it.
Preferably without being hung for a beer. Or, since “Christian” marriages aren’t recognised, for fornication with a wife.
It is sad when some of the loveliest and most historic sites are mobbed up by lack-witted nutters.
I wonder if I can declare a fatwa that all Islamists must convert to Wicca by noon on Saturday? Any that don’t are haram and takfir and all sorts of other bad naughties.
And for my second fatwah: all Muslim hadiths, sharia laws and fatwahs apart from this one and the one I fatwadded just before this one are null, void, repealed, rescinded and gone.
Hey, I just solved the Middle East.
Do you think any of them will believe me?
True, be reasonable. But economists are often protected by being of the priestly class, close to politicians and the wealthy. Weathermen are only scientists, expendable geeks.
And all scientists are evil. Science is evil. Technology, any technology not directly involved in killing the infidel, is evil. So no one would miss a few weathermen. No one important.
The future is dark. The future is evil. The future has a price on its head and that price is us.
Jesus & Mo (the characters) are absurd, blinkered, and oddly very sweet. J&M (the cartoon) is brilliant: sharp, delicious, irresistible. Salman Rushdie
Jesus and Mo cartoons are wonderfully funny and true. Richard Dawkins
Jesus and Mo make the world a better place, bless their little hearts. Ophelia Benson
In a world defined by outrage and offence and liberal spinelessness, Jesus and Mo is a treasure, whose value we should never fail to recognize. Read them. Laugh. And think. Kenan Malik
The brilliant, celebrated, freaking hilarious atheist comic strip ... Greta Christina
...rays of sanity in a befuddled world. Keri Hulme
The liveliest depictions of Muhammad currently available... Malise Ruthven
J & Mo is the funniest and most consistently thought-provoking cartoon strip on the Net. In a saner world, it would run in a major newspaper. Nelson Jones, Heresy Corner
Consistently amusing, frequently thought-provoking and often heart-warming. New Humanist
Jesus & Mo is one of the most wonderful things on the internet.. JT Eberhard
Wittily captures much of the absurdity of religious apologetics. Mano Singham
I love jesusandmo.net cartoons - witty and sharp! Katha Pollitt
Often hilarious, frequently wry, these cartoons do what all the best cartoons do: they tell the truth through humour. Terry Sanderson, NSS President
...a wonderfully acid British cartoonist... Nick Cohen
I love the scrappy mockery of Jesus and Mo. Freedom of speech
includes the freedom to mock any person, any thing, any activity, and
any belief -- and J&M stands up for this unflinchingly Richard Stallman
...empowering, important and deeply progressive, not to mention hilarious... Council of Ex-Muslims
February 17, 2009
So, saying they “are not true Muslims” is bad, which means they are true Muslims, which means that all Muslims support, condone, accept, aid, succour and believe in the very, very bad guys? So, basically, one milliard Muslims are terrorists and terrorist facilitators?
That is something no one ever considered before. What an amazing revelation. No one has ever even dreamed of thinking such a though before.
I’m amazed.
Piss. “such a thought”.
Yonder MacBook needs a new keyboard.
The, ‘no true Scotsman’ fallacy takes a sinister twist.
Does that mean David Cameron is a muslim for practising takfir?
I’m un-Islamic and an unbeliever full stop. Whats the “moderate” Muslim’s interpretation of the Koran say about me?
I think we need the opinion of a true Scotsman on this.
The closely related “No true Scotsman” argument is getting a good run over in the (somewhat) United Kingdom even as we speak!
LOL he really created the account. Should explore more of this @mosfatwas in future strips.
I know transcribing Arabic words is subject to some flexibility in spelling, but I can’t figure out how the pronunciation of “fatwa” could require “an” as the indefinite article. Or was that just a typo?
Smee said: ‘I’m un-Islamic and an unbeliever full stop. Whats the “moderate” Muslim’s interpretation of the Koran say about me?’
Same as it always was. You have refused the call to submit to Allah, and are therefore an enemy, to be killed on sight. You don’t even have the choice of dhimmitude, since you are not ‘of the book’.
I recommend that you wear a gorget at all times.
@Kilby Thanks! Fixed it.
Author, thankyou for the linked article. I could never quite put my finger on what bugged me about this argument and its modernised/liberalised form of ‘holier-than-thou’. Besides which, it seems more than a bit historically inaccurate to suggest that Islam has always been all about peace and love and sunflowers.
Can’t help feeling a little sorry for “moderate” muslims. They can’t win. Having said that, it is hilarious when they do venture to criticise IS on the basis that “that’s not what Islam is about”. Considering one of the fundamental tenets of being a muslim is to memorise the Quran and study the hadiths, you’d think they would at least have the faintest idea of what Mohammed was all about.
Takfir, when used in proportion
To the population, replaces abortion
Confiscate the possessions of the new infidel
Stone them just as well
Quote the Qur’an for profitable distortion.
Ah, takfir. Another Muslim word for me to absorb and understand. My bi friend D. commented thusly: “Saying that ISIS is not Islamic is like me claiming to be straight.”
You’ll notice that Boko Haram has slipped out of the news lately, overshadowed by beheadings of American journalists. Months after the abduction of the school girls, NONE have been rescued. Not one. Nigeria has hired a PR firm to try to improve its national image. I despair.
What’s funny is that a lot of Westerners have not yet realized that the amount of death and destruction in the middle east has got to the point where it is no longer seemly to make fun of it.
Author, sorry but no it isn’t. It still says ” … an fatwa” on the host’s copy.
Darwin, I have not forgotten the Boko shites and their atrocities. Nor have I forgotten the girls. I truly wish I could think of something to do for them but the suggestion of mass civil disobedience in the form of an unarmed civilian invasion didn’t go down well.
On the “no true Christian/Muslim/scotsman” fallacy: believers are divided into two, there are the True Believers and the False Believers. It is always the True Believers who get to say who is which.
I could claim to be a True Scotsman and to speak as an authority on what True Scotsmen are, do and believe and what they are and do not but all it takes is one More Truly True True Scotsman to rebut me and to point out my deficiencies in bona fides. Not being Scottish being a small one. Likewise, I am no true Muslim. I am not even a poor fake of a replica, ersatz facsimile of a Muslim so, like at least five out of six human-looking evil satanic zombies walking around, the Truly True Muslims want me dead.
Except the moderates, of course, who just want peace … with me dead.
But even were True Muslims Really Really Truly True True Muslims there is a subtle but serious flaw in all of their arguments.
Should we tell them that according to the Archangel Moroni, who really should know these things as he gets them from the horse’s mouth (or some part of the horse) , Mohammed was a raving liar and his trivial little collection of hate and porn is a pack of lies?
An archangel told Joseph Smith he was a prophet. Joseph Smith’s version of the books was a lot different from Mo’s and Joseph Smith was born lived and died long after Mo.
So that Kuran is not the latest, greatest and truest version. It’s a pack of lies from a liar and it’s not even *newsworthy*. It is not even the current version.
It has taken them over a hundred years and they still haven’t worked this out. So shouldn’t we tell them all?
Before they burn us into a molten puddle?
An archangel no less has told them that they are getting all upset over a fake.
Last Resort is correct & what makes me giggle most about the cartoon is that Mo (M’u)never knew Jesus. Your wording was perfect 😉 Canuck
None of you are TRUE Jesus and Mo fans. You are only but a bunch of hack frauds. Death to you all.
Is it Takfir if I denounce Nassar for not being a poet?
My comment doesn’t appear. I declare takfir upon Author, not a TRUE Jesus and Mo lover.
Canneloni
“Smee said: ‘I’m un-Islamic and an unbeliever full stop. Whats the “moderate” Muslim’s interpretation of the Koran say about me?’
Same as it always was. You have refused the call to submit to Allah, and are therefore an enemy, to be killed on sight. You don’t even have the choice of dhimmitude, since you are not ‘of the book’.
I recommend that you wear a gorget at all times
My Dear Canneloni
Thanks for the warning! I shall keep a sharp look out for bearded loonies hiding amongst my roses! Although it’s difficult to distinguish between them and other garden pests, like slugs and greenfly; Don’t scoff some garden pests can be quite savage you know!
Ah, takfir. Another Muslim word for me to absorb and understand. My bi friend D. commented thusly: “Saying that ISIS is not Islamic is like me claiming to be straight.”
You’ll notice that Boko Haram has slipped out of the news lately, overshadowed by beheadings of American journalists. Months after the abduction of the school girls, NONE have been rescued. Not one. Nigeria has hired a PR firm to try to improve its national image. I despair.
After Rotherham and other Incidents in the UK, So as not to attract unjustified accusations of racism, I’m curious to know the islamic word for F**king the infidels children? Anyone know what it is it? Just in the interests of fitting into the multiculturalism groove of course!
I think IS is a fantastic development. It has renewed my optimism, and offers a real pathway forwards in dealing with extremism on its own terms – ie, extremely, with no quarter given or taken. It is certainly a huge improvement on Al-Quaida, not least because, thanks to their own arrogance and megalomania, you know exactly where the IS fuckers are.
Now that even conflict-phobic Obama has taken on board that the only rational strategy with IS is to bomb them into the afterlife they so keenly look forward to, pass the popcorn and let’s sit back and enjoy watching the masterminds of IS act out the irreducable interconnectedness of
A) standing on your hind legs and claiming geographical territory for the Eternal Caliphate, and
B) giving the Great Satan beautifully precise co-ordinates to target its drones and missiles.
It really doesn’t matter if enforcing a Final Solution on IS puts you in cahoots with ruthless bastards like Bashir al-Assad, arguably the catalyst if not the cause of the current conflict. We can postpone recriminations until the last anonymous, brain-dead Allah-hu-Akkbar-shouter lets go of life and his stupid flag (the one that reads ‘owi jowi joz’ in childish script).
And while it’s always distressing to consider collateral damage, in the long view it doesn’t really make a huge difference if some of ‘their’ women and children happen to get caught in the crossfire, either. They would only have had a short, rotten life ahead of them anyway. Cruel to be kind. Omelettes, eggs.
So dear IS fighter, keep your cowardly mask on, so you won’t be mistaken for an innocent bystander. Do keep beheading journalists and aid workers so we are not tempted to lose sight of what a disgusting crew of psychopaths you are. And do please keep waving that silly flag; the monochrome gives a lovely sharp focus on the night-sight, and it helps you stand out against the crosshairs.
smee, the word for “raping the infidels’ children” is “multiculturalism”.
Or maybe it’s the phrase : “tolerance for other peoples’ cultures”.
However, please do *NOT* make Rotherham and all of the other recent revelations about Muslims or even Asians. The sexual abuse of vulnerable children in “care” is a fact of life for those who have gone through The System. There has never been a Children’s Home without at least one diddler being protected, condoned, accepted and covered for by all of the other staff. It happens in every country. Go into a CH and ask the children, they will point him out. It happens in every era. Those in power take from those without it and little children are the most without that there can ever be.
Those who authorise CH’s are the elite, the wealthy, the legislators and the watchmen and the oversight of those people is done by those people; they are policed, when policed at all, by their peers. Many of those peers get a slice of the action, be it in kind or in profits or both.
It happens. It has always happened. Ask any child who has gone through The System and they will tell you it always will happen.
And good, honest, pillar-of-the-community, white folk have been doing it to the children in England for millennia.
The latest batch of “foreigners” (many of whose grandparents were probably English citizens) to get in on the act are only notable for being the latest and for being the latest to get caught.
Many, many children get through The System without ever being touched but millions of others get minced.
*Shrug*.
Shit rolls downhill and children without protectors swim in the lowest valleys.
There is nothing to be done about it.
I *CARE* but I am only me and I learned a long, long time ago that The System is invulnerable, eternal and fireproof.
Author could you fix the “start-bold-text” before “care” for me, please? I would thank you very much for that kindness.
And the “an” is still “an”.
I’m off to remember the children, with great sadness.
We should not mock. I have just spent an hour listening to a bunch of theologians, ethicists and philosophers trying to explain away the fact of evil. They tied themselves into knots and never explained how an omniscient and omnipotent god would allow such a thing to exist in his perfect creation. After all, if god made it, it must be perfect! Right!
So, my point is that when people, be they Christians, Muslims, Rastafarians or beievers in the great spaghetti monster, get down to talking theology, they are talking crap. It is not possible to have a learned discussion about that which does not exist.
Perhaps we should all feel sorry for poor old Mo for he is so confused.
So, “The Takfir Paradox”?
Hotrats, one would almost imagine that you are not entirely, 100%, in agreement with IS’s aims and cherished beliefs? Could we take it then that you disagree, slightly, with a few of the finer points of their mission statements and vision?
LastResort you wouldn’t happen to have gone through The System by any chance? If so, my sympathies are extended.
You are correct in saying that mostly all peoples, countries, races, creeds and genders are guilty of abuse, or, more accurately, that a small minority of their members are and that a larger minority protect them. We mustn’t lose sight of the fact that evil kiddy-rapers come in all flavours.
smee, I, too, remember the girls and wish we could influence their fates for the better somehow. I just currently do not see a viable method that has much chance of success. Maybe if those northern Englishmen do got nuts and grab independence they will mobilise a police task force to do something. It would both give their divisiveness some legitimacy and keep their politicians from doing anything even more daft.
For a while.
And, friend smee not all bearded loonies are out to get you. Some of us are nice. Though I do take the comparison to garden pests as a great compliment, thank you.
And, LastResort , if the Koran is all lies and false prophecies and an outdated version, to boot, and if the original Mo’ is such a bare-faced liar, why do you suppose so many people think the opposite?
They can’t all have the wit of weetabix.
In religious circles, Empiricist, having the wit of a weetabix elevates one to the status of genius.
The wise Ken Kukec asked:“So, “The Takfir Paradox”?” .
Well spotted! Of course, that is the title of Episode thirteen, Season 9 of “The Really Much Newer Voyages” in which the Captains have to decide between bacon butties, B’Henji strejin and Vulcan plomeeks at the inauguration ceremony of Enterprise-QT. One of the more intense storylines of that year featuring the long-awaited return of The Teselecta.
You are a funny, funny man, Acolyte and possibly accurate.
Empiricist:
Hotrats, one would almost imagine that you are not entirely, 100%, in agreement with IS’s aims and cherished beliefs? Could we take it then that you disagree, slightly, with a few of the finer points of their mission statements and vision?
Glad to see you managed to read between the lines to my carefully hidden subtext.
ISIS, ISIL, IS, whatever, I’m still going with ‘reavers’.
On the subject of caring, loving, sane, wonderful, beautiful, generous, fatherly, dedicated-to-your-welfare and protective deities … I have nothing to say but I did find this.
Empiricist, I blush.
Speaking of religion and intelligence, it certainly took IS long enough to realise that they’d initially (pun intended) named themselves after an ancient Egyptian deity.
There is no god but Allah?
The reference article does have some rather interesting comments below it.
I really don’t care if they’re muslims or non-muslims; I just want them to stop killing.
Acolyte, it’s funnier than that-Isis is a goddess. Reminds me of the time Muslims were screaming about Nike shoes, named after Athena.
They were not too fond of this either, as this old piece from the Freethinker shows: http://freethinker.co.uk/2006/02/10/muslim-zealots-boost-sales-of-mustafa-shag/
@Empiricist: Love the Amazing Super powers comic and give you Oglaf (this one safe for work (so many Oglaf aren’t)): Assorted Fruits.
Stephen, have you read their imbecile of the week page? I would laugh heartily at his idiocy but unfortunately I have the required dangly bits so I am “allowed to”. Instead, I will sneer in contempt. And possibly send the link to my sister. I can think of few finer punishments for him.
Your Oglaf, Efogoto, is on topic and funny but I have worked with people who were sure that such things were NOT SFW. At least a couple of them were sure my relatives were high in the satanic hierarchy. That I cheerfully agreed with their assessments pissed off quite an assorted bunch.
But I do like the lovely Sithrak. He’s my kind of deity. Evil as possible and smart enough to mess with their heads. Sort of like the son of the Lightbringer and Loki on steroids.
And I offer this to Stephen : “… full name Ab? al-Q?sim Mu?ammad ibn ?Abd All?h ibn ?Abd al-Mu??alib ibn H?shim …”.
“… Born Mu?ammad ibn `Abd All?h …”.
“… Other names Abu al-Qasim (Kunya) , Rasul (‘Messenger’) ‘The Prophet’ …” Follow the link, no mention of “Mustafa Baby-to-rape”.
…
However this page does mention that the phrase “al-Mustafa” means “the chosen” so the Islamics do have some sort of a point, if you squint and don’t examine the thought processes too closely. It’s about as serious a point as saying that the “Hey, Zeus” joke in DH3 is an insult to the previous Speaker-to-Fairies but at least it does have some sort of vague legitimacy, unlike much of their ranting.
To say that Islamics are disgusted and upset by “Mustafa Shag” is rather disingenuous, though, as I know for a fact that the name has been the punchline of a particularly lame school-yard joke for at least half of a century. I heard it often enough in mine, along with other “Mustafa” lameness.
Mustafa Pish, Mustafa Shit, Mustafa Grope, Mustafa Banana, Mustafa Fag, Mustafa Beer, Mustafa Wank … and the even sillier, Mahatma Coat variations. There are many more that are floating in the dense, pseudo-holographic, quasi-quantum soup I use as a mind.
The Islamics are, therefore, at least fifty years too late to get all upppity.
Even if they do have some small cause.
But there is one additional note, Mo’ the baby-rapist (note: not one of his “official” names, *I* gave him that one) has at least 99 “official” names a lot of which sound like English words or phrases. Are the daft farts going to try to insist we don’t make jokes from *any* of them?
Even “Al kareem in my trews when I see a two-year-old girl”? A title which I suspect the old perve richly deserved.
Stephen I don’t know if you sighted this story from the Freethinker site cited above but some of the comments are slightly hilarious:
” …How would you convince the court, eh?
If it may please m’lud, there was this violent paedo who lived in the desert about 1400 years ago, and he liked his minge without a fringe…”
I doubt it would have worked. And this comment is a reminder of *why* some of these nutjobs come across as just insanely creepy.
An entire religion based around boffing babies and killing everyone else. Lovely.
Oh dear:
Isil fanatics ‘fear being killed by a woman will deprive them of virgins in paradise’…(from today’s Telegraph). Not afraid of big Al’s anger at the killing of women & children, but frightened of being killed by a wee girly, ’cause they won’t get any virgins. Reminds me of the gag about the suicide bomber who expected to get 72 virgins; when he woke up, he was in a Star Trek convention.
By the way, my mum was a covert Muslim for years; whenever she got home from the shops, she used to pray to Mustafa Cuppatee.
Be reasonable, Mustafa Laff.
Holy Mackerel is that the time? Mustafa Sleep, then Mustafa Baconbutty.
Mustafa Senzohoomah about these things.
Mustahafa Spellchecka around here, somewhere.
What did the desperate Muslim say as the toilet doors were locked?
“Mustafa Wee. ”
What did the ISIS Muslim say before the wee girly killed him?
“Mustafa Mandoothat. ”
What did the dead virgin Muslim suicide bomber say when he saw the 72 raisins?
“Mustafa *S*H*A*A*A*A*G*G*G*G*!!!”
What did the dead virgin Christian say when he saw the 72 raisins?
“That’s nice. Thank you.”
What did the dead Christian say when he saw the 72 other virgins?
“You, too? That’s nice.”
What did the dead rat say when he saw the 72 raisins?
Nothing. Rats don’t talk. Dead ones even less.
Heard about the successful Muslim suicide bomber?
He woke up surrounded by nuns with rulers.
###############################
Anti-Pagan says of Pagans, “Oh, they’re those people who believe in trees.”
Pagan responds, “Of course we do, there’s one right over there.”
################################
Retic, n. A person who does not believe in the One True Faith, or one who
believes in a One True Faith different from the One True Faith espoused by the
person using the term. This is the modern gender-neutral version of the older terms Heretic and Sheretic The derivation is from the fact that Retics get True Believers so pissed off that they say “Die, you Retic!”
####################
WARNING: You are about to enter the “Real World”. Climate controls are non functional and there are no keyboard commands nor drop down menus.
There is no ‘undo’ function.
#########################
“The Puritan through Life’s sweet garden goes
To pluck the thorn and cast away the rose.”
[Kenneth Hare]
###########################
And last words of wisdom on the subject:
In hypothetical sentences introduced by ‘if’ and referring to past time, where conditions are to be deemed ‘unfulfilled’, the verb will regularly be found in the pluperfect subjunctive, in both protasis and apodosis.
— Donet, “Principles of Elementary Latin Syntax”
“What happens if a big asteroid hits Earth? ”
“Judging from realistic simulations involving a sledgehammer and a common laboratory frog, we can assume it will be pretty bad.” – Dave Barry
################
Deuteronomy, 22
Verse 28 If a man find a damsel that is a virgin, which is not betrothed, and lay hold on her, and lie with her, and they be found;
V.29 Then the man that lay with her shall give unto the damsel’s father fifty shekels of silver, and she shall be his wife; because he hath humbled her, he may not put her away all his days.
V 30 A man shall not take his father’s wife, nor discover his father’s skirt.
.
So, no doing the laundry if you’re male, then? Fabulous.
My favourite quote from the Babble is this one. It is full of pathos, bathos, passion, angst, pain, joy, humanity and the sheer exuberance of life as she is meant to be lived. It is a tale of unquenchable sensuality, unending forgiveness, a rainbow of soft emotive expressions in a quilt of aromatic certitude and the absolute tip of the acme of the peak of angelic perfection of a wisdom so merciful, benign and rapturous it can only be truly true Truth in its truly truest form:
It is Numbers 3:47 and it reads so sweetly:
Thou shalt take five sicles for every bead, according to the weight of the sanctuary. A sicle hath twenty obols.
Sublime poetry.
Empiricist, can I have a pint of whatever it is you’re drinking? 🙂
be reasonable:
If you must, but realise that’s a whole bottle. Keep away from naked flames and don’t try and drink it all at once.
Cover that naked flame right now, hotrats; it provokes uncontrollable lust for fire.
Somebody not taking their medication?
Empiricist:
In hypothetical sentences introduced by ‘if’ and referring to past time, where conditions are to be deemed ‘unfulfilled’, the verb will regularly be found in the pluperfect subjunctive, in both protasis and apodosis.
Words of wisdom indeed, so glad to hear technical grammar terms being flung about at the C&B. English doesn’t have a pluperfect subjunctive form per se, unless you believe the following gag (apologies to regulars for the repost):
A traveller who is a seafood gourmet arrives in Boston for the first time, knowing there is a dish he has never tried. He leaves the airport and hails a cab, and he excitedly says to the cabbie, “Hey, I’m new in town. Can you tell me a good place to go to get scrod?” The cabbie replies, “Well, I’ve heard that question a lot over the years, but that’s the first time I’ve ever heard it in the pluperfect subjunctive.”
Just to trim off the crusts, protasis is the ‘if’ part in an ‘if-then’ statement; to confuse English learners, we put this in the present tense, even though it clearly refers to a future event (if it rains). apodosis is the rest of the statement, the ‘then’ part (we’ll go indoors).
Hotrats, your scholarship intimidates me and makes me feel unlearned. Please stop displaying it. 🙂
Obama hailed his Arab allies, including Saudi Arabia. I quote:
Saudi Arabia has a criminal justice system based on a hardline and literal form of Sharia law reflecting a particular state-sanctioned interpretation of Islam.
The death penalty can be imposed for a wide range of offences including murder, rape, false prophecy, blasphemy, armed robbery, repeated drug use, apostasy, adultery, witchcraft and sorcery and can be carried out by beheading with a sword, or more rarely by firing squad, and sometimes by stoning.
The 345 reported executions between 2007 and 2010 were all carried out by public beheading.
the most gruesome beheadings are those carried out by the victim’s relatives where, lacking the professionalism of the public executioner, the condemned is repeatedly hacked and chopped until he dies.
What would be the difference between Saudi Arabia and a country run by Islamic State?
Gus there are two utterly *OBVIOUS* differences between SA and the IS-nuts:
1: SA is rich, wealthy and powerful because it supplies the USofA with oil
2: SA is (currently) our “friend” and therefore one of the GoodGuys(TM).
You obviously haven’t been paying close enough attention, friend. I recommend five thousand hours of FauxNews together with the reading of six hundred daily editions of “The Garudian” from England. Maybe “The Telegraph”, too.
Note, these are not for educational purposes, they are punishments. For education, I would suggest a ten-year’s supply of old “Sun” issues. And, if you survive that, the complete archive of the BBC’s “NewsNight” TV programme.
Yes, I do have a very small cruel streak.
hotrats, I knew that.
Mickey, the brew I drink is my “medication”. How else do you think I got to be like this?
And to be reasonable, no. Humans falling within five standard deviations of the top of the bell curve are advised not to, though it’s fine for sea squirts.
What’s the difference between a pious nun and a lady bathing?
.
One has hope in her soul …
.
And that is far older than any Mustafa joke.
Spot on empiricist. I actually copypasted that comment straight from The Guardian.
Now, here’s a more challenging one for you: what if the IS fuckers all of a sudden changed strategy and decided to stay put and gain recognition as a lawful state in their current borders? And what if as a ‘token of good will’ they started selling their oil to NATO countries cheaper than the saudis do?
Why would either of those be “challenging” for me,Gus?
The IRA became the GoodGuys on Good Friday, or thereabouts. The vile, evil, commie, pinko, bastard, Red-menace from the Russian Evil Empire became our pals, and the GoodGuys. Those
little buggersfine and wonderful folk from Japan are our very bestest friends and real GoodGuys.Why, even those nasty revolting Colonials have a Special Relationship with us.
Anyone can become one of the GoodGuys.
All it takes is a re-writing of history and a few denunciations of some lower echelon punks who did all the really, truly horrible bad stuff which, of course, the Aristocrats and Lords and Super-Bosses never even heard of.
Should IS-nuts, Bokjo-pukes or any other verminous sludge carve out a bit of ground, wave a flag and get “recognised” because they are the ones standing on the oil and buying them off is easier than killing them off, then they would become the GoodGuys and our pals and the hands of all of their diplomats and super-bosses would suddenly be clean.
Why would that be challenging?
Because it would gag a maggot?
Well, diplomacy is like that.
I am not. Which explains why I’m not in the diplomatic corps.
So, execution by stoning for “false prophecy”?
Well, then. Better get the forecast right. I wonder how many weathermen they go through? Probably not many, it is a fairly not-weathery place.
Beheading for “witchcraft”? Hmmm, best not send the wife there for a holiday ….
Firing squad for repeated drug use? Well, that is annoying. I am completely fucked in Summer without my Piriton. Come to think on it, a firing squad sounds like a good deal when the alternative is Summer without anti-hissies.
I’m not entirely sure I like the Saudi government and their laws, but I’m sure it is none of my business what they do to citizens and visitors. So long as I am never one of them.
It’s a pity. Some of those lunatic fringe places used to have monuments and artefacts testifying to over twelve millennia of human settlements and some eight millennia of history before the crud-wits destroyed it all. I would have liked to see some of it.
Preferably without being hung for a beer. Or, since “Christian” marriages aren’t recognised, for fornication with a wife.
It is sad when some of the loveliest and most historic sites are mobbed up by lack-witted nutters.
I wonder if I can declare a fatwa that all Islamists must convert to Wicca by noon on Saturday? Any that don’t are haram and takfir and all sorts of other bad naughties.
And for my second fatwah: all Muslim hadiths, sharia laws and fatwahs apart from this one and the one I fatwadded just before this one are null, void, repealed, rescinded and gone.
Hey, I just solved the Middle East.
Do you think any of them will believe me?
Not just weathermen – economists as well. A fair number of those should have been chopped after 2007-8.
True, be reasonable. But economists are often protected by being of the priestly class, close to politicians and the wealthy. Weathermen are only scientists, expendable geeks.
And all scientists are evil. Science is evil. Technology, any technology not directly involved in killing the infidel, is evil. So no one would miss a few weathermen. No one important.
The future is dark. The future is evil. The future has a price on its head and that price is us.