I thought irrationality was a virtue. Are not billions of otherwise intelligent people proud to prefer not using their own reason, like some groups of also intelligent persons do? Just wondering. .-
+ Chiefly: Silence! I kill ye!”.
Since English is not my native language, I regret missing some undoubtedly humorous remarks but I get the gist of this excellent sketch, thanks for the link. First time I see a ventriloquist with two (dead!) companions. .-
Muslim’s are constantly in rage
From the qur’an, quoting ever page
irrational beast
Violent fools at the least
Ignorance impossible to adequately gauge.
The religious are irrational-
who would have thought it
next up –
Basement dwelling computer gaming nerds have no social skills.
Facists are deficient in liberal ideology.
Creationists lack scientific education.
@ Chiefy, like the site and Bookmarked it. But, back at the C&B, remember how children throw tantrums. Growing up is difficult for kids – they often trash stuff when their worldview is conflicted. Just imagine how bad it is for an adult!
@Dr John: Did you know the theory that the origin of that expression doesn’t come from pot and kettle both being black, but that kettles were made of polished copper or some other highly reflective metal and that the pot just saw its own reflection? The difference between hypocrisy and projection, I guess.
FF:
Thanks for that.
I am wondering how did you know my interest in these kind of things?
My most recent find is the connection between the two totally different words for bullying in English an in Dutch.
Bullying in Dutch is “pesten”. An older expression for it is “koeieneren”.
Litterally that means “making a cow of”.
And the connection: Both stem from an old punishment for some improper behavior.
The culprit was undressed and tied in a bend-over position. His backside was washed with the smell of a cow in heat, and a bull was brought to the scene.
Oviously the anglophones concentrated active part of the punishment, the dietsophones on the role of the culprit.
… over 90 % died very unpleasantly in 3 – 6 days.
A lot of old expressions are leftovers from harsher times, most often that origin has gone (nearly completely) lost.
FF:
“Me like”? I wonder if you DO realise the size of a grown bull. The reason of those unpleasant deaths was internal rupture. The flexibility of the entrailsystem DOES have its limits! And bulls are not well known for there tenderness.
Then again, you MIGHT just be one of those few percent.
For the general edification of the patrons of the Cock & Bull: I am afraid someone’s homophobic fantasy con-cock-ted that bull-story out of thin air. Rudimentary research (I shall modestly refrain from sharing personal, anecdotal evidence here) yields that while a bull’s cock can indeed get quite long (around 2-3 feet), it’s girth is a mere 2-3 inches and tapered very nicely at the head. A quick look around even dildo-sections of online erotic stores shows that there are a lot of enthusiasts out there who rather enjoy that size. And if you google “fisting” (NSFW!), you see that nothing about bovine cock would make for a very good execution method. (Stallions, while somewhat shorter are much more daunting, and yet, even life-like horse dildos are sold, and I can assure you, not for novelty use alone.)
It goes to show again, never trust the internet unless you yourself checked the facts against several independent sources…
FF:
I clearly have to stand corrected on the origin of bullying. AFAIK the origin of koeieneren still stands though.
Upon the acceptability of such insertions: trained vs untrained may make a difference, and exactly the slenderness combined with the stiffness and the applied force may just make it harmfull enough.
I really DO allow you the pleasure, but I would suggest some carefullness to begin with.
Dr John: Way too late for that admonishment, mate. ^_^
Do you have some kind of source for the “koeieneren” etymology? Because I have to admit this still sounds mostly like a contemporary sadistic fantasy retconned into the middle ages.
@Pink Squirrel: It seems people here do not need more ideas for horrible tortures. Google “anal glue Iraq” for example. Easier and more horrifying than getting cattle to cooperate.
the inventiveness of the religious minded seekers after ‘heresy’ never falters when it comes to new ways of torture
the Inquisition museum in Ulm has many lurid examples
Matches the human sacrifice central to Abrahamic religions
now relegated to historical/symbolic in Judaism
purely symbolic for xians
and still performed judiciously by islam, Riyadh having a special plaza devoted to human sacrifices to appease ‘god’
FF et al.:
I have tried to retrace the source of bulling-koeieneren. It was an article on torture vs punishment. Of old those were different things: torture was for interrogation, and explicitly intended to do as little as possible permanent damage. It was the Inquisition that got them to blend: usually the interrogation was to get the confession that the tortured had sinned, which automaticly led to punishment. They promised a (relatively) quick death to who confessed; and if one was strong enough not to confess, that was proof of Satan’s help, and torture as long as possible until death was ‘only justice before the face of god’.
To my dismay I have not (yet?) been able to find it again.
Even the etymology of koeieneren I find now is another one! (In itself not too strange, many old expressions have different explanations, sometimes more than one can be correct).
FreeFox, about the lethality of bull penises – it may be apocryphal but my father claimed that bulls penned together in a coral will sometimes attempt to hump each other until one succeeds in perforating the bowels of a weaker bull, after which the others would gang rape the victim to death. Mind you, dear old dad was extremely homophobic, so that may have just been an old farmer’s fantasy.
There were beast trainers (bestiarii) as well as gladiator trainers (lanistae) in the Roman arena. One the most famous was Carpophorus who, among his many talents, used to train animals (his most celebrated was giraffes) to rape prisoners in the arena using the methods Dr John mentions. Sometimes this was to re-enact various scenes from mythology–such as Europa and the bull (Zeus in one of his many animal forms)
Whether the slaves survived the experience is debatable. The weight of the animal must have been likely to kill whatever the results of internal injuries.
The Colosseum (2000) edited by Ada Gabucci.
Seneca: Epistles (1920) trans. Gummer
Seneca: Moral Essays; The Ante-Nicene Fathers: Trans Roberts & Donaldson
Ovid: Metamorphoses trans Miller
helenahandbasket:
As far as I remember reading about those practises, those victims usually were female slaves, and the insertions vaginally. (That would also better fit the story of reeancting mythology)
The weight of the animal must have been likely to kill whatever the results of internal injuries.
maybe – but I recall reading somewhere that the victim was placed inside a wooden animal shape/frame to assist the animal when mounting -which would have spread the load
Would “Small Gods” by the lovey Mr. Pratchett do? [Note: no Wiki-link nor review from any of the online SF sites to avoid spoilers] It doesn’t mention exactly the punishments under discussion above but it does come close.
Truly, it isn’t an authoritative primary source but it is a lovely book.
Hmm, 2016? Whatever makes me think you are still hanging around awaiting a response?
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November 29, 2023
I once heard a story about a pot and a kettle discussing blackness.
— not sure if there was any truth in it though
LOLs
But isnt the msking of figures not allowed in islam?
And yet, nothing has changed.
I thought irrationality was a virtue. Are not billions of otherwise intelligent people proud to prefer not using their own reason, like some groups of also intelligent persons do? Just wondering. .-
Trevor M–You’re right! That’s why they grab a human being to fill in for the papier mache effigy.
Don’t accuse them of violent behavior, they kill you. https://youtu.be/K43YncHWPMM
to author: ha-ha-ha-ha-ha… so true… you did it again!
+ Chiefly: Silence! I kill ye!”.
Since English is not my native language, I regret missing some undoubtedly humorous remarks but I get the gist of this excellent sketch, thanks for the link. First time I see a ventriloquist with two (dead!) companions. .-
Ten years old and yet timeless.
Muslim’s are constantly in rage
From the qur’an, quoting ever page
irrational beast
Violent fools at the least
Ignorance impossible to adequately gauge.
The religious are irrational-
who would have thought it
next up –
Basement dwelling computer gaming nerds have no social skills.
Facists are deficient in liberal ideology.
Creationists lack scientific education.
@ Chiefy, like the site and Bookmarked it. But, back at the C&B, remember how children throw tantrums. Growing up is difficult for kids – they often trash stuff when their worldview is conflicted. Just imagine how bad it is for an adult!
@Dr John: Did you know the theory that the origin of that expression doesn’t come from pot and kettle both being black, but that kettles were made of polished copper or some other highly reflective metal and that the pot just saw its own reflection? The difference between hypocrisy and projection, I guess.
FF:
Thanks for that.
I am wondering how did you know my interest in these kind of things?
My most recent find is the connection between the two totally different words for bullying in English an in Dutch.
Bullying in Dutch is “pesten”. An older expression for it is “koeieneren”.
Litterally that means “making a cow of”.
And the connection: Both stem from an old punishment for some improper behavior.
The culprit was undressed and tied in a bend-over position. His backside was washed with the smell of a cow in heat, and a bull was brought to the scene.
Oviously the anglophones concentrated active part of the punishment, the dietsophones on the role of the culprit.
… over 90 % died very unpleasantly in 3 – 6 days.
A lot of old expressions are leftovers from harsher times, most often that origin has gone (nearly completely) lost.
Dr John – if you have an interest in words and expressions, you should visit World Wide Words
Dr John – I’m sure daesh appreciate the info on how to add to their ever widening range of sharia punishments
HFB: Just remember that you will not find the word “gullible” in an American dictionary.
Grumpy – not so (see Webster’s). Or were you joking?
Dr. John. Hm. Kinky. Me like. What would I have needed to do to receive such “bullying”? ^_^
Oldbabe: Oh dear, you fell right into that one just by checking.
Nice one, Grumpy!
FF:
“Me like”? I wonder if you DO realise the size of a grown bull. The reason of those unpleasant deaths was internal rupture. The flexibility of the entrailsystem DOES have its limits! And bulls are not well known for there tenderness.
Then again, you MIGHT just be one of those few percent.
Dr John:
Bummer. It was just a beautiful lie.
https://www.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/english/bully
http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?term=bully
http://www.onestopenglish.com/community/your-english/word-of-the-week/word-of-the-week-a-g/word-of-the-week-bully/155750.article
For the general edification of the patrons of the Cock & Bull: I am afraid someone’s homophobic fantasy con-cock-ted that bull-story out of thin air. Rudimentary research (I shall modestly refrain from sharing personal, anecdotal evidence here) yields that while a bull’s cock can indeed get quite long (around 2-3 feet), it’s girth is a mere 2-3 inches and tapered very nicely at the head. A quick look around even dildo-sections of online erotic stores shows that there are a lot of enthusiasts out there who rather enjoy that size. And if you google “fisting” (NSFW!), you see that nothing about bovine cock would make for a very good execution method. (Stallions, while somewhat shorter are much more daunting, and yet, even life-like horse dildos are sold, and I can assure you, not for novelty use alone.)
It goes to show again, never trust the internet unless you yourself checked the facts against several independent sources…
FF:
I clearly have to stand corrected on the origin of bullying. AFAIK the origin of koeieneren still stands though.
Upon the acceptability of such insertions: trained vs untrained may make a difference, and exactly the slenderness combined with the stiffness and the applied force may just make it harmfull enough.
I really DO allow you the pleasure, but I would suggest some carefullness to begin with.
Dr John: Way too late for that admonishment, mate. ^_^
Do you have some kind of source for the “koeieneren” etymology? Because I have to admit this still sounds mostly like a contemporary sadistic fantasy retconned into the middle ages.
@Pink Squirrel: It seems people here do not need more ideas for horrible tortures. Google “anal glue Iraq” for example. Easier and more horrifying than getting cattle to cooperate.
the inventiveness of the religious minded seekers after ‘heresy’ never falters when it comes to new ways of torture
the Inquisition museum in Ulm has many lurid examples
Matches the human sacrifice central to Abrahamic religions
now relegated to historical/symbolic in Judaism
purely symbolic for xians
and still performed judiciously by islam, Riyadh having a special plaza devoted to human sacrifices to appease ‘god’
FF et al.:
I have tried to retrace the source of bulling-koeieneren. It was an article on torture vs punishment. Of old those were different things: torture was for interrogation, and explicitly intended to do as little as possible permanent damage. It was the Inquisition that got them to blend: usually the interrogation was to get the confession that the tortured had sinned, which automaticly led to punishment. They promised a (relatively) quick death to who confessed; and if one was strong enough not to confess, that was proof of Satan’s help, and torture as long as possible until death was ‘only justice before the face of god’.
To my dismay I have not (yet?) been able to find it again.
Even the etymology of koeieneren I find now is another one! (In itself not too strange, many old expressions have different explanations, sometimes more than one can be correct).
FreeFox, about the lethality of bull penises – it may be apocryphal but my father claimed that bulls penned together in a coral will sometimes attempt to hump each other until one succeeds in perforating the bowels of a weaker bull, after which the others would gang rape the victim to death. Mind you, dear old dad was extremely homophobic, so that may have just been an old farmer’s fantasy.
lethality of bull penises- only to humans – not to cows – otherwise the genus Bos would be extinct by now
There were beast trainers (bestiarii) as well as gladiator trainers (lanistae) in the Roman arena. One the most famous was Carpophorus who, among his many talents, used to train animals (his most celebrated was giraffes) to rape prisoners in the arena using the methods Dr John mentions. Sometimes this was to re-enact various scenes from mythology–such as Europa and the bull (Zeus in one of his many animal forms)
Whether the slaves survived the experience is debatable. The weight of the animal must have been likely to kill whatever the results of internal injuries.
The Colosseum (2000) edited by Ada Gabucci.
Seneca: Epistles (1920) trans. Gummer
Seneca: Moral Essays; The Ante-Nicene Fathers: Trans Roberts & Donaldson
Ovid: Metamorphoses trans Miller
helenahandbasket:
As far as I remember reading about those practises, those victims usually were female slaves, and the insertions vaginally. (That would also better fit the story of reeancting mythology)
The weight of the animal must have been likely to kill whatever the results of internal injuries.
maybe – but I recall reading somewhere that the victim was placed inside a wooden animal shape/frame to assist the animal when mounting -which would have spread the load
Pink Squirrel. That’s interesting–I hadn’t heard that. Do you have a source?
helenahandbasket, a source you ask for?
Would “Small Gods” by the lovey Mr. Pratchett do? [Note: no Wiki-link nor review from any of the online SF sites to avoid spoilers] It doesn’t mention exactly the punishments under discussion above but it does come close.
Truly, it isn’t an authoritative primary source but it is a lovely book.
Hmm, 2016? Whatever makes me think you are still hanging around awaiting a response?
Have a lovely new year and many of them. Hugs.