Speaking of the menace: When a celebrity with the resources that Penn Jillette presumable commands says he won’t take on Islam out of fear for the safety of his family, it’s obvious that terrorism works. http://boingboing.net/2010/06/28/why-penn-and-teller.html
Some call Jillette a coward for this position. They really haven’t thought about it enough, or paid attention. What could he possibly gain, and what does he stand to lose?
I think Author has the only viable answer – mocking from safe anonymity. There should be lots of anonymous mocking. Bring on the Streisand Effect.
Couldn’t agree more with Darwin. I don’t think its cowardice to refrain from making yourself a target of crazies that have proven they’ll follow through with their threats. That said, the absolute hypocrisy that is Islam should be mocked relentlessly (along with all other religions) and anonymously.
Bang on the button again Author. As the old saying goes. ‘He who laughs last….doesn’t get the joke’.
As for the rally, how do we know you won’t be there? I mean, nobody outside of your intimate circle knows who you are. Pity there’s not more time before the event, ‘cos I’ve had an idea for a great merchandising opportunity; imagine several thousands of ‘free-expressionists’ roaming London, all wearing ‘I’M AUTHOR’ t-shirts.
Nassar; I agree with DH, you’ve really hit your stride now and with this one you’ve got straight to the heart of the matter. It wouldn’t be quite so bad if they only got offended by being laughed at, but a lot of these nutters can -and do- take offence at anything even remotely approaching criticism, to the extent that many of them actively seek reasons to be offended; indeed, as (ahem!) shocking as this may seem, some will even manipulate the facts to ensure this goal, as with the ‘Danish’ cartoons, for example. They remind me of the sort of people that I used to have to eject from the pubs and clubs every night when I was a bouncer, the idiots who’d ‘accidentally’ bump someone, then blame them for spilling their beer and escalate it to an argument just so they could start throwing punches; the sort of people who could start a fight in an empty room. It’s high time they all just learned to calm the fuck down a little, maybe get a little perspective, a sense of humour, and get themselves laid now and then…not necessarily in that order.
Ophelia; if you’ve ever been to London you’ll know that 6000 miles is nowhere near far enough away. I worked there for 6 months a few years ago, and if I never go back it’ll still be too soon.
@Ophelia Benson: I’m only 5750 miles away, so I guess you win the “Couldn’t come from the farthest away” prize. Sure wish it wasn’t such a long commute though. I’d love to be there.
@Acolyte of Sagan: Funny, that’s how I feel about Paris. I’ve actually had some good times in London. Hard to remember them though, which may be why they were good.
Hope this will be mentioned on free speech day; actually, I find those tweets on the occasion of the reputed birthday of Muhammad (not the body double’s…?) very respectful:
βOn your birthday, I will say that I have loved the rebel in you, that youβve always been a source of inspiration to me, and that I do not like the halos of divinity around you. I shall not pray for you,β he wrote in one tweet.
βOn your birthday, I find you wherever I turn. I will say that I have loved aspects of you, hated others, and could not understand many more,β he wrote in a second.
βOn your birthday, I shall not bow to you. I shall not kiss your hand. Rather, I shall shake it as equals do, and smile at you as you smile at me. I shall speak to you as a friend, no more,β he concluded in a third.
DH, I can’t deny having had some good times in London, but they were had despite the location; I’ve always been able to laugh in the face of adversity.
@European Thanks for that. I thought nothing those Saudi crazies did would surprise me anymore, but this blew the doors off. Those were insults? They don’t even know what insults sound like.
The most surprising thing about this is that they managed to get Malaysian authorities to arrest the guy. Uh… maybe not so surprising once I think about it. But ever so wrong.
So, in a nutshell the Saudi thing went like this;
“It is a sin punishable by death to idolise the prophet Mohammed as he was only a man. We idolise Allah alone”
“Makes sense I suppose. Happy birthday Mohammed, I think you were pretty much OK, but I don’t idolise you as you were just a man”
“YOU DISRESPECTFUL BASTARD, we’ll kill you for this”!
@Acolyte of Sagan You nailed it. But if it were a matter of being logically consistent, there would be no Islamists. Logic isn’t exactly their strong suit.
Just seen http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-17001900 that the tweeter has now been extradited despite malaysia not having a formal treat with saudi arabia. Potentially he faces the death penalty π WTF we continue to trade with these medieval barbarians beats the heck out of me.
Yes, well, perhaps he is. Or perhaps telling everyone on the airwaves and the internet that he’s afraid for his family is a good way of telling the world that Islam is utterly rotten. Just a thought.
@European I’m currently in a dictatorship where YouTube is blocked. Is there any way you can download that file and put it someplace where I can see it, or maybe send it to me. I’d really appreciate it. Anybody have a link for me?
By the way, when you live in a dictatorship where YouTube is blocked, you really come to appreciate the freedoms we have in sensible countries. Definitely worth our vigilance and strident opposition to any degradation. I’m glad the Yanks ash canned SOPA and PIPA. I hope the Canadians do the same with Bill-C11. http://www.ted.com/talks/defend_our_freedom_to_share_or_why_sopa_is_a_bad_idea.html
Gordon Willis: Yes, well, perhaps he is. Or perhaps telling everyone on the airwaves and the internet that heβs afraid for his family is a good way of telling the world that Islam is utterly rotten. Just a thought.
Or maybe it’s just bs agitprop to pump up his fan base? Given that he works in the US where there’s no history of folks who say nasty things about Islam being hurt — maybe we shouldn’t respect Euro & American right wing self-victimization any more than we respect that of the left, or the Christians, or the Muslims, or… ?
Just a thought — but then, tribalism will always trump anything else, particularly when your ideology explicitly rejects ideology.
@Joe and Gordon Willis Hamza Kashgari has been extradited from Malaysia back to Saudi Arabia where his life is most definitely in danger. I don’t know where you get your fantasies about “self-victimization” or “agitprop to pump up his fan base.” You think those people calling for him to be beheaded are kidding?
@DH – afraid I’m not terribly technologically gifted, but I can sum up the video for you. It shows a Sheikh (Nasser Al Omar) weeping unconvincingly during a plea to the king for Hamza’s execution. Some choice quotes (the video is in Arabic, but subtitled in English):
“Forgive me o brothers, I am not able to lecture to you today. How can I when Allah and his prophet are being insulted publically?” *deepunconvincingsobs*
“And as Ibn Al-Arabi said when he was told “we should argue with atheists through intellectual debates”, he replied “That’s a cold reaction, that should be warmed up with the heat of the sword””
“I plead to the king and crown prince, God bless them, that these people are taken to the Islamic courts for punishment that would implement the Islamic ruling. And it is known that cursing Allah and Mohammed is apostasy (punishable by death)”
“As for what has been expressed about his repentance, which was expressed in a cold manner, with COLD words! That is of no use to him in our judiciary system!”
“Whoever curses god and his prophet should be sentenced for Apostasy, Even if he repented.”
All in all, a vile man interspersing hateful comments with crocodile tears.
Am i the only who finds Hamza Kashgari tweets very poetic. It’s really beautifully written. If I had received that as birthday greeting card I’m not sure I’d be offended. I’d be flattered that someone would spend time to write something with such eloquence. Hamzah isn’t shouting for Mo’s head or saying that Mo had smelly feet, why are the muslims going nuts about this? It’s about as harmless as a sleeping toddler.
@DH, @Dalai Lama – i think the Youtube sermon can be summarized to be even much simpler to “If we don’t punish Hamzah, Allah will bring fire of hell on all of us” or “Kill Hamzan or Allah will kill all of us”.
Must say, it is rather smart. Does not give that much of a choice for the people.
Xavier, they’re going nuts about it because they daren’t do anything else. When you worship a psychopath you have to cover all the bases, and as it’s anyones guess what might set the psycho off on a murderous rampage then better safe than sorry and all that.
Besides, if they let this guy ‘get away’ with it, and Allah doesn’t immediately send down an ocean of fire to wipe them all out, then it might just raise a question or two among its followers, questions to which the answer could only be either; a) Allah didn’t actually see anything wrong in the birthday tweets; or b) It’s all a bag of shit; and either conclusion weakens the hold that the mad mullahs and insane imams have over the masses!
Better one innocent man die, than a billion realise the truth.
Apparently we shouldn’t paint Malaysia with the same brush we use on Saudi Arabia. There are some people in that country who are upset by Kashgari’s extradition, and may file charges with the U.N. http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2012/feb/14/malaysia-deporting-saudi-journalist
Trying to label Kashgari a terrorist may be just ass covering.
@DH, they’re labeling him a terrorist? just how on earth could anyone be terrified by Hamza’s tweets? It’s not he like was threatening to blow up buildings.
@Acolyte of Sagan, funny thing to me was it’s the Saudi’s mullah/imam who puts out that burden of proof challenge upon himself then completely bypassing it by immediately condemning Hamza to death. What is scary of course is the amount of people who agreed with everything the mullah/imam said.
Sorry I haven’t been around lately – I have been very ill in hospital. I appreciate that no-one will probably see this posting, bit I’d just like to say that this is the first I’ve heard about Hamza Kashgari, and have it on record that I’m absolutely appalled and saddened by the story. I’ll have to go and check up what the latest is now, with a view to registering any protests I can.
Jesus & Mo (the characters) are absurd, blinkered, and oddly very sweet. J&M (the cartoon) is brilliant: sharp, delicious, irresistible. Salman Rushdie
Jesus and Mo cartoons are wonderfully funny and true. Richard Dawkins
Jesus and Mo make the world a better place, bless their little hearts. Ophelia Benson
In a world defined by outrage and offence and liberal spinelessness, Jesus and Mo is a treasure, whose value we should never fail to recognize. Read them. Laugh. And think. Kenan Malik
The brilliant, celebrated, freaking hilarious atheist comic strip ... Greta Christina
...rays of sanity in a befuddled world. Keri Hulme
The liveliest depictions of Muhammad currently available... Malise Ruthven
J & Mo is the funniest and most consistently thought-provoking cartoon strip on the Net. In a saner world, it would run in a major newspaper. Nelson Jones, Heresy Corner
Consistently amusing, frequently thought-provoking and often heart-warming. New Humanist
Jesus & Mo is one of the most wonderful things on the internet.. JT Eberhard
Wittily captures much of the absurdity of religious apologetics. Mano Singham
I love jesusandmo.net cartoons - witty and sharp! Katha Pollitt
Often hilarious, frequently wry, these cartoons do what all the best cartoons do: they tell the truth through humour. Terry Sanderson, NSS President
...a wonderfully acid British cartoonist... Nick Cohen
I love the scrappy mockery of Jesus and Mo. Freedom of speech
includes the freedom to mock any person, any thing, any activity, and
any belief -- and J&M stands up for this unflinchingly Richard Stallman
...empowering, important and deeply progressive, not to mention hilarious... Council of Ex-Muslims
December 8, 2021
That’s funny. π
A faith-head could find a rose petal infused bath menacing if they needed to.
Speaking of the menace: When a celebrity with the resources that Penn Jillette presumable commands says he won’t take on Islam out of fear for the safety of his family, it’s obvious that terrorism works.
http://boingboing.net/2010/06/28/why-penn-and-teller.html
Some call Jillette a coward for this position. They really haven’t thought about it enough, or paid attention. What could he possibly gain, and what does he stand to lose?
I think Author has the only viable answer – mocking from safe anonymity. There should be lots of anonymous mocking. Bring on the Streisand Effect.
So does that make each of them a prong?
There’s a dirty joke in there somewhere.
I expected a two-pronged pitchfork.
Couldn’t agree more with Darwin. I don’t think its cowardice to refrain from making yourself a target of crazies that have proven they’ll follow through with their threats. That said, the absolute hypocrisy that is Islam should be mocked relentlessly (along with all other religions) and anonymously.
π like it. I also hope Jesus and mo volum 5. book comes this year
The religious often think that religious freedom means religion being free from criticism.
Bang on the button again Author. As the old saying goes. ‘He who laughs last….doesn’t get the joke’.
As for the rally, how do we know you won’t be there? I mean, nobody outside of your intimate circle knows who you are. Pity there’s not more time before the event, ‘cos I’ve had an idea for a great merchandising opportunity; imagine several thousands of ‘free-expressionists’ roaming London, all wearing ‘I’M AUTHOR’ t-shirts.
Criticism has the result
Of offending an ignorant cult
Whose violence never ceases
Till they’re blown to pieces
This avenges the imagined insult.
@NBH okay, now you are cooking with gas. Good one.
@NBH – “They blow up so early these day” from anon. Muslim mother
Fiddle; I have a pre-existing engagement on Saturday otherwise I’d be there
I wish I could too, but 6000 miles is quite far.
Nassar; I agree with DH, you’ve really hit your stride now and with this one you’ve got straight to the heart of the matter. It wouldn’t be quite so bad if they only got offended by being laughed at, but a lot of these nutters can -and do- take offence at anything even remotely approaching criticism, to the extent that many of them actively seek reasons to be offended; indeed, as (ahem!) shocking as this may seem, some will even manipulate the facts to ensure this goal, as with the ‘Danish’ cartoons, for example. They remind me of the sort of people that I used to have to eject from the pubs and clubs every night when I was a bouncer, the idiots who’d ‘accidentally’ bump someone, then blame them for spilling their beer and escalate it to an argument just so they could start throwing punches; the sort of people who could start a fight in an empty room. It’s high time they all just learned to calm the fuck down a little, maybe get a little perspective, a sense of humour, and get themselves laid now and then…not necessarily in that order.
Ophelia; if you’ve ever been to London you’ll know that 6000 miles is nowhere near far enough away. I worked there for 6 months a few years ago, and if I never go back it’ll still be too soon.
@Ophelia Benson: I’m only 5750 miles away, so I guess you win the “Couldn’t come from the farthest away” prize. Sure wish it wasn’t such a long commute though. I’d love to be there.
@Acolyte of Sagan: Funny, that’s how I feel about Paris. I’ve actually had some good times in London. Hard to remember them though, which may be why they were good.
Sorry Ophelia, I win: 9398.48 miles from London. (Sorry, feeling very competitive today) π
Hey, can I play, too? How about this: I am at least 7 years and 33 days from London. π
I am 2 hours from London, but 24 hours from Tulsa….
Hope this will be mentioned on free speech day; actually, I find those tweets on the occasion of the reputed birthday of Muhammad (not the body double’s…?) very respectful:
βOn your birthday, I will say that I have loved the rebel in you, that youβve always been a source of inspiration to me, and that I do not like the halos of divinity around you. I shall not pray for you,β he wrote in one tweet.
βOn your birthday, I find you wherever I turn. I will say that I have loved aspects of you, hated others, and could not understand many more,β he wrote in a second.
βOn your birthday, I shall not bow to you. I shall not kiss your hand. Rather, I shall shake it as equals do, and smile at you as you smile at me. I shall speak to you as a friend, no more,β he concluded in a third.
http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2012/02/08/twitter-aflame-with-fatwa-against-saudi-writer-hamza-kashgari.html
@JoJo,
May the most holy image of Gene Pitney always smile upon you….
@FreeFox I had a car like that once
I like the scribbled face with the Grrr on Mo’s sign.
Exelent humor, just continue, I like every one of “Jesus and Mo”
DH, I can’t deny having had some good times in London, but they were had despite the location; I’ve always been able to laugh in the face of adversity.
@European Thanks for that. I thought nothing those Saudi crazies did would surprise me anymore, but this blew the doors off. Those were insults? They don’t even know what insults sound like.
The most surprising thing about this is that they managed to get Malaysian authorities to arrest the guy. Uh… maybe not so surprising once I think about it. But ever so wrong.
So, in a nutshell the Saudi thing went like this;
“It is a sin punishable by death to idolise the prophet Mohammed as he was only a man. We idolise Allah alone”
“Makes sense I suppose. Happy birthday Mohammed, I think you were pretty much OK, but I don’t idolise you as you were just a man”
“YOU DISRESPECTFUL BASTARD, we’ll kill you for this”!
Seems pretty rational to me.
Just listened to the Pod Delusion on yesterdays speeches at the Freedom of Speach rally .. very nice words from Author read by Maryam Namazie.
@Acolyte of Sagan You nailed it. But if it were a matter of being logically consistent, there would be no Islamists. Logic isn’t exactly their strong suit.
Just seen http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-17001900 that the tweeter has now been extradited despite malaysia not having a formal treat with saudi arabia. Potentially he faces the death penalty π WTF we continue to trade with these medieval barbarians beats the heck out of me.
Just listened to Author’s speech read out at the Freedom of Speech rally by Maryam:
Brilliant! Just brilliant!
You can here the Rally here: http://poddelusion.co.uk/blog/?utm_source=e-bulletin+subscribers&utm_campaign=67602be837-BHA_e_bulletin_2012_02_13&utm_medium=email
Author’s statement from 11:30 for 2 minutes
itβs obvious that terrorism works.
http://boingboing.net/2010/06/28/why-penn-and-teller.html
Some call Jillette a coward for this position.
Yes, well, perhaps he is. Or perhaps telling everyone on the airwaves and the internet that he’s afraid for his family is a good way of telling the world that Islam is utterly rotten. Just a thought.
At a loss for words (still on the Kashgari case, which Malaysia is treating as a case of terrorism):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s9kAVlnGMTU&feature=player_embedded
@European I’m currently in a dictatorship where YouTube is blocked. Is there any way you can download that file and put it someplace where I can see it, or maybe send it to me. I’d really appreciate it. Anybody have a link for me?
By the way, when you live in a dictatorship where YouTube is blocked, you really come to appreciate the freedoms we have in sensible countries. Definitely worth our vigilance and strident opposition to any degradation. I’m glad the Yanks ash canned SOPA and PIPA. I hope the Canadians do the same with Bill-C11.
http://www.ted.com/talks/defend_our_freedom_to_share_or_why_sopa_is_a_bad_idea.html
@Darwin Harmless
Try http://youtubeproxy.org/ or http://hidemyass.com/ – here is an article of how one can evade the youtubeban in Turkey:
http://www.wired.com/threatlevel/2007/03/howto_evade_tur/
Of course if you are in China or Iran this might be more difficult.
Gordon Willis: Yes, well, perhaps he is. Or perhaps telling everyone on the airwaves and the internet that heβs afraid for his family is a good way of telling the world that Islam is utterly rotten. Just a thought.
Or maybe it’s just bs agitprop to pump up his fan base? Given that he works in the US where there’s no history of folks who say nasty things about Islam being hurt — maybe we shouldn’t respect Euro & American right wing self-victimization any more than we respect that of the left, or the Christians, or the Muslims, or… ?
Just a thought — but then, tribalism will always trump anything else, particularly when your ideology explicitly rejects ideology.
@Joe and Gordon Willis Hamza Kashgari has been extradited from Malaysia back to Saudi Arabia where his life is most definitely in danger. I don’t know where you get your fantasies about “self-victimization” or “agitprop to pump up his fan base.” You think those people calling for him to be beheaded are kidding?
@DH – afraid I’m not terribly technologically gifted, but I can sum up the video for you. It shows a Sheikh (Nasser Al Omar) weeping unconvincingly during a plea to the king for Hamza’s execution. Some choice quotes (the video is in Arabic, but subtitled in English):
“Forgive me o brothers, I am not able to lecture to you today. How can I when Allah and his prophet are being insulted publically?” *deepunconvincingsobs*
“And as Ibn Al-Arabi said when he was told “we should argue with atheists through intellectual debates”, he replied “That’s a cold reaction, that should be warmed up with the heat of the sword””
“I plead to the king and crown prince, God bless them, that these people are taken to the Islamic courts for punishment that would implement the Islamic ruling. And it is known that cursing Allah and Mohammed is apostasy (punishable by death)”
“As for what has been expressed about his repentance, which was expressed in a cold manner, with COLD words! That is of no use to him in our judiciary system!”
“Whoever curses god and his prophet should be sentenced for Apostasy, Even if he repented.”
All in all, a vile man interspersing hateful comments with crocodile tears.
Edit: “cursed publicly” – not “insulted publically”. I blame the hangover…
@Dalai Llama many thanks.
@Joe and @Gorgon Willis. Sorry. Got my issues crossed there. You may have a point, though I’m not that cynical myself.
Dalai Llama
Seconding the “thanks”.
And Happy “St. Valentine’s Day”
(free wall calendars can be weird)
Am i the only who finds Hamza Kashgari tweets very poetic. It’s really beautifully written. If I had received that as birthday greeting card I’m not sure I’d be offended. I’d be flattered that someone would spend time to write something with such eloquence. Hamzah isn’t shouting for Mo’s head or saying that Mo had smelly feet, why are the muslims going nuts about this? It’s about as harmless as a sleeping toddler.
@DH, @Dalai Lama – i think the Youtube sermon can be summarized to be even much simpler to “If we don’t punish Hamzah, Allah will bring fire of hell on all of us” or “Kill Hamzan or Allah will kill all of us”.
Must say, it is rather smart. Does not give that much of a choice for the people.
Xavier, they’re going nuts about it because they daren’t do anything else. When you worship a psychopath you have to cover all the bases, and as it’s anyones guess what might set the psycho off on a murderous rampage then better safe than sorry and all that.
Besides, if they let this guy ‘get away’ with it, and Allah doesn’t immediately send down an ocean of fire to wipe them all out, then it might just raise a question or two among its followers, questions to which the answer could only be either; a) Allah didn’t actually see anything wrong in the birthday tweets; or b) It’s all a bag of shit; and either conclusion weakens the hold that the mad mullahs and insane imams have over the masses!
Better one innocent man die, than a billion realise the truth.
What a fucked-up world this is.
My husband and I both are going to the Reason Rally – wish you could be there, we’d love to meet you!
Apparently we shouldn’t paint Malaysia with the same brush we use on Saudi Arabia. There are some people in that country who are upset by Kashgari’s extradition, and may file charges with the U.N.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2012/feb/14/malaysia-deporting-saudi-journalist
Trying to label Kashgari a terrorist may be just ass covering.
@DH, they’re labeling him a terrorist? just how on earth could anyone be terrified by Hamza’s tweets? It’s not he like was threatening to blow up buildings.
@Acolyte of Sagan, funny thing to me was it’s the Saudi’s mullah/imam who puts out that burden of proof challenge upon himself then completely bypassing it by immediately condemning Hamza to death. What is scary of course is the amount of people who agreed with everything the mullah/imam said.
Sorry I haven’t been around lately – I have been very ill in hospital. I appreciate that no-one will probably see this posting, bit I’d just like to say that this is the first I’ve heard about Hamza Kashgari, and have it on record that I’m absolutely appalled and saddened by the story. I’ll have to go and check up what the latest is now, with a view to registering any protests I can.
look at the sheikh’s eyes. he is an EVIL and cynical man !