The Quran’s author(s) had probably learned from earlier Christian and Jewish practice. Since belief is the opposite of doubt (application of intelligence etc.) non-belief has to be declared “sinful” (whatever that may mean). Anyone who doesn’t swallow the theocrat’s claims whole can be punished for the sin of “blasphemy” (whatever that may mean) in short, tortured and/or murdered for using their common sense. It’s all about power, really.
Right! Since there’s no demonstrable proof about reguarding claims of ‘holy books’, proponants must use the tools of communication. Such as:
propaganda
censorship
secrecy
indoctranation (especially of children)
“Science flies you to the moon;religion flies you into buildings”–Victor Stenger
I always resented it when I go to a wedding or funeral to support the family and half the time is spent telling the group that most of us are going to hell
To catch up on the evolution in human thought, culture, and practice, including religious belief and texts, I recommend taking a look at the project of the Institute for the Study of Human Knowledge, and “The Human Journey.” You can, for instance, read about Paul of Taursus and Mohammad and their initial writings and what influenced their thinking.
So much for just lurking. Just not me, I guess. Great strip, Author. Yes, pointing out that somebody (Psalm 14:1 for example) is vilifying you for no damn good reason might be seen as othering.
Jim Loving, in this crowd the assumptions that we haven’t read about Paul of Tarsus and Mohammed means that either you are new here or just a bit thicker than your average plank. I call troll.
“I always resented it when I go to a wedding or funeral to support the family and half the time is spent telling the group that most of us are going to hell.”
I totally agree Rebecca. I have been to funerals where the deceased seemed to be hardly mentioned, instead it was one long advert for whichever form of religion was involved. I think church funerals actually make it worse for the bereaved
I have also been to two Humanist funerals this year, where everything was about the deceased, their family and friends, the latter was that of my best friend and, if you can have such a thing, was a happy funeral. There were funny stories about his life and everyone laughed and we were able to say goodbye to a real character in the way he would have wanted. A theist funeral would have denied us that option.
‘Over half of the book is dedicated to denigrating or threatening infidels.’
It’s enough to make one suspect that the authors were more determined to convince themselves that they were right, than they were to communicate any actual spiritual message.
When people disagree, the rational response is to address the issues raised, not the individuals concerned. To threaten and denigrate those who disagree is to acknowledge that they have a point that cannot be answered rationally.
Rebecca, I once went to a funeral for a friend of mine where the preacher essentially said, in the nicest possible way, that he would be spending eternity in hell because he was a suicide. Some message for the grieving family members.
If there is a moral gulf between believers and nonbelievers, I know which side of the gulf that man was on.
An ironic strip in that author is creating an us and them narrative. It’s working perfectly. It amazes me how willing you are to jump into his shallow gene pool.
The Christian Medical Fellowship exists to unite and equip Christian doctors to live and speak for Jesus Christ in medicine. Founded in 1949 … Our members come from many different Christian denominations and are united by faith in Jesus Christ, belief in the Bible as God’s word, and a calling to healthcare. http://humanjourney.org.uk/faqs/
vs.
The revelations that Mohammad received were conveyed to others in words remote from his world: he was not known to have composed any poetry and had no special rhetorical gifts. From the first revelation, the Suras (chapters) of the Qur’an would deal with matters of belief, law, politics, ritual, spirituality and personal conduct, cosmology, and economics in what Karen Armstrong describes as an “entirely new literary form.” The Qur’an itself states, “If you are in doubt of what We have revealed to Our messenger, then produce one chapter like it. Call upon all your helpers, besides God, if you are truthful.” (The Qur’an 2.23) No one was able to do this.
…
A more modern understanding of a revelation might be that at such times Mohammad and other Prophets experienced a higher state of consciousness that enabled them to intuitively understand aspects of an alternate Reality. This Reality is “beyond words”. “I cannot recite” might actually mean that the experience is impossible to put into words.
Thus in himself the Prophet developed a refined integrated understanding, an intuitive capacity to connect to what has been referred to throughout our religious history as God/Truth/Knowledge/Love…
Does the Christian Medical Fellowship know that you hijacked their name to promote Islam? I did not know that Mohammad the bloody desert pirate, a caravan raider who enslaved everyone he did not murder, was such a noble spiritual fellow. I was under the impression that Islam’s spread had something to do with the traditional ISIS practice of theology by terror.
Does it show that only those with major brain warpage are believers … 🙂
Oh, and I’d really like to know how Mrs. Rostro squares getting the little bastards in her brain in the first place with her big, cuddly, loving, merciful daddy, but I suppose that was all part of The Ineffable Plan?
A Plan that involved several centuries of Science and hundreds of millions of man-years of University and post-University education, among other massive efforts. All to “save” someone who could have been saved by not creating fucking tapeworms.
“It’s a miracle.”
Yeah, honey, so was catching the buggers. 🙂
Robert Andrews, SCIENCE flew planes into buildings and into a field. All the religious nuts did was to aim them.
No religion has ever constructed an aeroplane. No religion ever can. As we see in Palmyra, all religion does is murder, rape and destroy.
Science builds. Religion corrupts.
Rebecca, my wife, being a Catholic, had a generic, fill-in-the-blanks RC type service interspersed with tunes I selected because she liked them. Those wee, apart from mentions of her name, the only personal parts of the priest’s bits. I don’t remember him mentioning flames and pitchforks but I remember having the rather anti-social urge to smash his face in.
It wasn’t his fault, really, but what he was saying about her was so fucking wrong that it was infuriating.
She may have been a Catholic but she was beautiful. wise, clever, free thinking, imaginative, clever, educated, free-spirited, possessed of a wicked sense of humour and independent. She was brilliant in every sense of the word. A light so bright she lit the worlds.
I wanted to tell the priest this. I didn’t. I just waited for it all to be over and got the hell out of there.
I guess it was really my fault. I should have told him something about her to give him something to work with.
Priests are like vaudeville mediums. They do cold readings and hope something fits. It isn’t their personal fault that sometimes, most times it nothing they say does.
It is ours for not giving them a script to work from.
Rebecca–when my father died three years ago we gave him a humanist send off. I did a reading from various science pieces he enjoyed incluing that famous one of Dawkins’. Not a dry eye in the house. Afterwards I overheard one of the ushers aying to another “I dont why atheists bother with funerals–its not like they are going anywhere”. I like to think it would have given my dad a laugh.
ebs001, “Us” being what – anyone who tries to analyse facts and do comparisons? “Them” being people who use counter-accusations as a defence strategy instead of addressing the issue? The latter is hardly a homogenous crowd. It is a very popular strategy. Careful with the genetic references by the way. These days it will earn you a label as a racist in no time. Never mind that it is intended as a metaphorical insult to Author and the generalised collective of commenters. Literal interpretation is the way to go, I hear. Let’s not spend any energy reading between any lines. It’s so much easier misinterpreting thing to your advantage that way.
John67 From “Unweaving the Rainbow”
“We are going to die, and that makes us the lucky ones. Most people are never going to die because they are never going to be born. The potential people who could have been here in my place but who will in fact never see the light of day outnumber the sand grains of Arabia. Certainly those unborn ghosts include greater poets than Keats, scientists greater than Newton. We know this because the set of possible people allowed by our DNA so massively exceeds the set of actual people. In the teeth of these stupefying odds it is you and I, in our ordinariness, that are here.We privileged few, who won the lottery of birth against all odds, how dare we whine at our inevitable return to that prior state from which the vast majority have never stirred?”
Helenahandbasket and Jim+Baerg _ Thank you! You both are inspiring me to read “Unweaving the Rainbow”. That’s one of the Dawkins books I haven’t yet read. Thought-provoking piece.
Jesus & Mo (the characters) are absurd, blinkered, and oddly very sweet. J&M (the cartoon) is brilliant: sharp, delicious, irresistible. Salman Rushdie
Jesus and Mo cartoons are wonderfully funny and true. Richard Dawkins
Jesus and Mo make the world a better place, bless their little hearts. Ophelia Benson
In a world defined by outrage and offence and liberal spinelessness, Jesus and Mo is a treasure, whose value we should never fail to recognize. Read them. Laugh. And think. Kenan Malik
The brilliant, celebrated, freaking hilarious atheist comic strip ... Greta Christina
...rays of sanity in a befuddled world. Keri Hulme
The liveliest depictions of Muhammad currently available... Malise Ruthven
J & Mo is the funniest and most consistently thought-provoking cartoon strip on the Net. In a saner world, it would run in a major newspaper. Nelson Jones, Heresy Corner
Consistently amusing, frequently thought-provoking and often heart-warming. New Humanist
Jesus & Mo is one of the most wonderful things on the internet.. JT Eberhard
Wittily captures much of the absurdity of religious apologetics. Mano Singham
I love jesusandmo.net cartoons - witty and sharp! Katha Pollitt
Often hilarious, frequently wry, these cartoons do what all the best cartoons do: they tell the truth through humour. Terry Sanderson, NSS President
...a wonderfully acid British cartoonist... Nick Cohen
I love the scrappy mockery of Jesus and Mo. Freedom of speech
includes the freedom to mock any person, any thing, any activity, and
any belief -- and J&M stands up for this unflinchingly Richard Stallman
...empowering, important and deeply progressive, not to mention hilarious... Council of Ex-Muslims
July 16, 2014
The Quran’s author(s) had probably learned from earlier Christian and Jewish practice. Since belief is the opposite of doubt (application of intelligence etc.) non-belief has to be declared “sinful” (whatever that may mean). Anyone who doesn’t swallow the theocrat’s claims whole can be punished for the sin of “blasphemy” (whatever that may mean) in short, tortured and/or murdered for using their common sense. It’s all about power, really.
but don’t forget the tolerance http://t.co/r3N67gu7Eg
Splendid.
Right! Since there’s no demonstrable proof about reguarding claims of ‘holy books’, proponants must use the tools of communication. Such as:
propaganda
censorship
secrecy
indoctranation (especially of children)
“Science flies you to the moon;religion flies you into buildings”–Victor Stenger
I always resented it when I go to a wedding or funeral to support the family and half the time is spent telling the group that most of us are going to hell
To catch up on the evolution in human thought, culture, and practice, including religious belief and texts, I recommend taking a look at the project of the Institute for the Study of Human Knowledge, and “The Human Journey.” You can, for instance, read about Paul of Taursus and Mohammad and their initial writings and what influenced their thinking.
Jim Loving says [i]” You can, for instance, read about Paul of Taursus and Mohammad and their initial writings and what influenced their thinking.[/i]
Just a guess but I am going with batshit crazy
So much for just lurking. Just not me, I guess. Great strip, Author. Yes, pointing out that somebody (Psalm 14:1 for example) is vilifying you for no damn good reason might be seen as othering.
Jim Loving, in this crowd the assumptions that we haven’t read about Paul of Tarsus and Mohammed means that either you are new here or just a bit thicker than your average plank. I call troll.
I like that “what’s your agenda?”. Mo sounds like Max Blumenthal tweeting about Maajid Nawaz.
Perfection, once, again.
“I always resented it when I go to a wedding or funeral to support the family and half the time is spent telling the group that most of us are going to hell.”
I totally agree Rebecca. I have been to funerals where the deceased seemed to be hardly mentioned, instead it was one long advert for whichever form of religion was involved. I think church funerals actually make it worse for the bereaved
I have also been to two Humanist funerals this year, where everything was about the deceased, their family and friends, the latter was that of my best friend and, if you can have such a thing, was a happy funeral. There were funny stories about his life and everyone laughed and we were able to say goodbye to a real character in the way he would have wanted. A theist funeral would have denied us that option.
‘Over half of the book is dedicated to denigrating or threatening infidels.’
It’s enough to make one suspect that the authors were more determined to convince themselves that they were right, than they were to communicate any actual spiritual message.
When people disagree, the rational response is to address the issues raised, not the individuals concerned. To threaten and denigrate those who disagree is to acknowledge that they have a point that cannot be answered rationally.
Islam and its destructive jihad
Is the spawn of a cult, barking mad
Islam seeks no division
Only total submission
To belief thats incredibly bad.
@Jim Was quite funny, compare http://www.humanjourney.org.uk and http://www.humanjourney.us – talk about othering…
Hey, Nassar, that’s definitely the best yet – a true limerick!
Rebecca, I once went to a funeral for a friend of mine where the preacher essentially said, in the nicest possible way, that he would be spending eternity in hell because he was a suicide. Some message for the grieving family members.
If there is a moral gulf between believers and nonbelievers, I know which side of the gulf that man was on.
An ironic strip in that author is creating an us and them narrative. It’s working perfectly. It amazes me how willing you are to jump into his shallow gene pool.
‘Islam’
is Mo referring to Shi’te islam or Sunni islam
What kind of a maroon things a gene pool is something one can jump into? ebs001, I invite you to go forth and multiply.
DH
I think ebs001 was aiming for this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-8wgXRNYcPM
at the 2:00 mark. It probably hurts when you dive into a metaphorical pool and miss.
Jim L
The Christian Medical Fellowship exists to unite and equip Christian doctors to live and speak for Jesus Christ in medicine. Founded in 1949 … Our members come from many different Christian denominations and are united by faith in Jesus Christ, belief in the Bible as God’s word, and a calling to healthcare.
http://humanjourney.org.uk/faqs/
vs.
The revelations that Mohammad received were conveyed to others in words remote from his world: he was not known to have composed any poetry and had no special rhetorical gifts. From the first revelation, the Suras (chapters) of the Qur’an would deal with matters of belief, law, politics, ritual, spirituality and personal conduct, cosmology, and economics in what Karen Armstrong describes as an “entirely new literary form.” The Qur’an itself states, “If you are in doubt of what We have revealed to Our messenger, then produce one chapter like it. Call upon all your helpers, besides God, if you are truthful.” (The Qur’an 2.23) No one was able to do this.
…
A more modern understanding of a revelation might be that at such times Mohammad and other Prophets experienced a higher state of consciousness that enabled them to intuitively understand aspects of an alternate Reality. This Reality is “beyond words”. “I cannot recite” might actually mean that the experience is impossible to put into words.
Thus in himself the Prophet developed a refined integrated understanding, an intuitive capacity to connect to what has been referred to throughout our religious history as God/Truth/Knowledge/Love…
http://www.humanjourney.us/Mohammad3.html
Does the Christian Medical Fellowship know that you hijacked their name to promote Islam? I did not know that Mohammad the bloody desert pirate, a caravan raider who enslaved everyone he did not murder, was such a noble spiritual fellow. I was under the impression that Islam’s spread had something to do with the traditional ISIS practice of theology by terror.
Well, this is mildly annoying, in a “what the fuck? Shouldn’t you be grateful to the Doctors instead?” sort of way.
“After the lifesaving operation, Rostro said that she is “very grateful to God”.”
Does it show that only those with major brain warpage are believers … 🙂
Oh, and I’d really like to know how Mrs. Rostro squares getting the little bastards in her brain in the first place with her big, cuddly, loving, merciful daddy, but I suppose that was all part of The Ineffable Plan?
A Plan that involved several centuries of Science and hundreds of millions of man-years of University and post-University education, among other massive efforts. All to “save” someone who could have been saved by not creating fucking tapeworms.
“It’s a miracle.”
Yeah, honey, so was catching the buggers. 🙂
Robert Andrews, SCIENCE flew planes into buildings and into a field. All the religious nuts did was to aim them.
No religion has ever constructed an aeroplane. No religion ever can. As we see in Palmyra, all religion does is murder, rape and destroy.
Science builds. Religion corrupts.
Rebecca, my wife, being a Catholic, had a generic, fill-in-the-blanks RC type service interspersed with tunes I selected because she liked them. Those wee, apart from mentions of her name, the only personal parts of the priest’s bits. I don’t remember him mentioning flames and pitchforks but I remember having the rather anti-social urge to smash his face in.
It wasn’t his fault, really, but what he was saying about her was so fucking wrong that it was infuriating.
She may have been a Catholic but she was beautiful. wise, clever, free thinking, imaginative, clever, educated, free-spirited, possessed of a wicked sense of humour and independent. She was brilliant in every sense of the word. A light so bright she lit the worlds.
I wanted to tell the priest this. I didn’t. I just waited for it all to be over and got the hell out of there.
I guess it was really my fault. I should have told him something about her to give him something to work with.
Priests are like vaudeville mediums. They do cold readings and hope something fits. It isn’t their personal fault that sometimes, most times it nothing they say does.
It is ours for not giving them a script to work from.
The strip is perfect. Lots of gold in the comments too. The Human Journey (biblical) and the gene pool are outstanding.
Rebecca–when my father died three years ago we gave him a humanist send off. I did a reading from various science pieces he enjoyed incluing that famous one of Dawkins’. Not a dry eye in the house. Afterwards I overheard one of the ushers aying to another “I dont why atheists bother with funerals–its not like they are going anywhere”. I like to think it would have given my dad a laugh.
To helenahandbasket – What was the famous Dawkins’ reading?
John67:
Probably the one that starts “We are all going to die and that makes us the lucky ones” .
ebs001, “Us” being what – anyone who tries to analyse facts and do comparisons? “Them” being people who use counter-accusations as a defence strategy instead of addressing the issue? The latter is hardly a homogenous crowd. It is a very popular strategy. Careful with the genetic references by the way. These days it will earn you a label as a racist in no time. Never mind that it is intended as a metaphorical insult to Author and the generalised collective of commenters. Literal interpretation is the way to go, I hear. Let’s not spend any energy reading between any lines. It’s so much easier misinterpreting thing to your advantage that way.
John67 From “Unweaving the Rainbow”
“We are going to die, and that makes us the lucky ones. Most people are never going to die because they are never going to be born. The potential people who could have been here in my place but who will in fact never see the light of day outnumber the sand grains of Arabia. Certainly those unborn ghosts include greater poets than Keats, scientists greater than Newton. We know this because the set of possible people allowed by our DNA so massively exceeds the set of actual people. In the teeth of these stupefying odds it is you and I, in our ordinariness, that are here.We privileged few, who won the lottery of birth against all odds, how dare we whine at our inevitable return to that prior state from which the vast majority have never stirred?”
Helenahandbasket and Jim+Baerg _ Thank you! You both are inspiring me to read “Unweaving the Rainbow”. That’s one of the Dawkins books I haven’t yet read. Thought-provoking piece.