This is a tricky and complex concept that I don’t really understand but basically, as I understand, it means some kind of lifting, removal or modification to the sacred text of the Qur’an. This was the basis (sort of) for Salmon Rushdie’s novel, 𝑆𝑎𝑡𝑎𝑛𝑖𝑐 𝑉𝑒𝑟𝑠𝑒𝑠.
What I’m not clear about is whether Muhammad (PBUH) himself did the “correction” or someone else, perhaps correcting a copying error.
See “O you who have believed, do not approach prayer while you are intoxicated” and “They ask you (O Prophet) about intoxicants and gambling. Say, ‘There is great evil in both, as well as some benefit for people—but the evil outweighs the benefit.’” [Qur’an, 2:219] abrogated by by Surat al-Ma’ida: “O believers! Intoxicants, gambling, idols, and drawing lots for decisions are all evil of Satan’s handiwork. So shun them so you may be successful.” [Qur’an, 5:90].
Since the Qur’an is not organized chronologically, it’s hard for a lay person like me to know how the abrogations occurred.
Anybody care to clarify?
Like poetry, the drivel in the Quran is clearly written by man and contains no fundamental truths. If Mo had inserted the Periodic table or the equations of the standard model or a set.of Mersenne prime numbers exceeding tbose currently discovered we may have to conceed that a superior intellect was in contact with the lying Shyster…
Paradoctor – Aye especially if you had it in conjunction with the arabic for 52nd…
Postdog. Brimming with love in the loving cup….we’re talking cream pies here are we not?
That Kings 7=23 discussion goes off the deep end pretty quick, but the initial point seems pretty fair. So the reported measurements don’t describe a perfect circle to fractional degree of accuracy? That happens, and doesn’t necessarily tell us anything about their knowledge of geometry.
Donn Cave, well, the bible, like the quran, is supposed to be the inerrant word of god. What gets me is how the link I posted goes on, elaborately, to equivocate faith with science, noting that Gödel’s incompleteness theorem annihilates any certainty of proof of mathematical axioms. That theorem is a great demonstration of the open-mindedness of science, as opposed to the rigid dogmatism required by faith. Maybe that leads us to conclude that the cosmology that has the Earth supported on a platform atop the back of a turtle (It is turtles all the way down) is the same as the fact that in mathematics it is Gödels all the way down. Mathematics in the past has suffered delusions, such as the disavowal of zero due to vague metaphysical arguments about the incomprehensibility of nothing. Zero is here to stay, and its inverse, infinity, is as easy to understand as the number line. Carrying that over to physics is another problem entirely. Who among us has a handle on string theory, replacing zero-dimensional points with one-dimensional strings of about Planck length? The science seems to be getting closer and closer to metaphysics, for the average observer. I’ll side with science. It can make finer predictions than the prophets, though the prophets often are spot on with their dismal, negative expectations.
M27, load up with lots of beverages and Bach. It is a heavy brick full of gold and gems!
No envy for anyone trying to translate all that … but it has been done, believe it or not.
Er Indoors has a list of jobs as long as her legs that I have to do before solstice and a tongue sharper than a scalpel, no time for reading at the mo…
Jesus & Mo (the characters) are absurd, blinkered, and oddly very sweet. J&M (the cartoon) is brilliant: sharp, delicious, irresistible. Salman Rushdie
Jesus and Mo cartoons are wonderfully funny and true. Richard Dawkins
Jesus and Mo make the world a better place, bless their little hearts. Ophelia Benson
In a world defined by outrage and offence and liberal spinelessness, Jesus and Mo is a treasure, whose value we should never fail to recognize. Read them. Laugh. And think. Kenan Malik
The brilliant, celebrated, freaking hilarious atheist comic strip ... Greta Christina
...rays of sanity in a befuddled world. Keri Hulme
The liveliest depictions of Muhammad currently available... Malise Ruthven
J & Mo is the funniest and most consistently thought-provoking cartoon strip on the Net. In a saner world, it would run in a major newspaper. Nelson Jones, Heresy Corner
Consistently amusing, frequently thought-provoking and often heart-warming. New Humanist
Jesus & Mo is one of the most wonderful things on the internet.. JT Eberhard
Wittily captures much of the absurdity of religious apologetics. Mano Singham
I love jesusandmo.net cartoons - witty and sharp! Katha Pollitt
Often hilarious, frequently wry, these cartoons do what all the best cartoons do: they tell the truth through humour. Terry Sanderson, NSS President
...a wonderfully acid British cartoonist... Nick Cohen
I love the scrappy mockery of Jesus and Mo. Freedom of speech
includes the freedom to mock any person, any thing, any activity, and
any belief -- and J&M stands up for this unflinchingly Richard Stallman
...empowering, important and deeply progressive, not to mention hilarious... Council of Ex-Muslims
December 23, 2005
It seems there is a race to be the first to comment elsewhere, so I’ll give it a try.
Am I first? 😛
Mo is solving the paradox of how can exists a god which is both good and omnipotent by relaxing on the latter, then?
Everyone needs an editor — even Allah apparently.
This is a tricky and complex concept that I don’t really understand but basically, as I understand, it means some kind of lifting, removal or modification to the sacred text of the Qur’an. This was the basis (sort of) for Salmon Rushdie’s novel, 𝑆𝑎𝑡𝑎𝑛𝑖𝑐 𝑉𝑒𝑟𝑠𝑒𝑠.
What I’m not clear about is whether Muhammad (PBUH) himself did the “correction” or someone else, perhaps correcting a copying error.
See “O you who have believed, do not approach prayer while you are intoxicated” and “They ask you (O Prophet) about intoxicants and gambling. Say, ‘There is great evil in both, as well as some benefit for people—but the evil outweighs the benefit.’” [Qur’an, 2:219] abrogated by by Surat al-Ma’ida: “O believers! Intoxicants, gambling, idols, and drawing lots for decisions are all evil of Satan’s handiwork. So shun them so you may be successful.” [Qur’an, 5:90].
Since the Qur’an is not organized chronologically, it’s hard for a lay person like me to know how the abrogations occurred.
Anybody care to clarify?
Allah is perfect;
Nobody is perfect;
Therefore Allah is Nobody.
Like poetry, the drivel in the Quran is clearly written by man and contains no fundamental truths. If Mo had inserted the Periodic table or the equations of the standard model or a set.of Mersenne prime numbers exceeding tbose currently discovered we may have to conceed that a superior intellect was in contact with the lying Shyster…
M27,
poetry and fundamental truths…
Candy is dandy,
but liquor is quicker.
……………………….
To keep your marriage brimming,
With love in the loving cup,
Whenever you’re wrong, admit it;
Whenever you’re right, shut up.
— Ogden Nash
Postdog. I have a favourite drinking T-Shirt. “I maybe wrong but it’s highly unlikely”…
I mentioned Mersenne Primes, as the 52nd was confirmed on 21st Oct, 2^136279841 – 1
M27:
Merely to name that exponent, 136279841, would require inventing positional notation; which all by itself would denote inspiration.
Paradoctor – Aye especially if you had it in conjunction with the arabic for 52nd…
Postdog. Brimming with love in the loving cup….we’re talking cream pies here are we not?
M27, if it’s not proven by experiment and mathematical scrutiny then it’s bollocks.
Look at the hoops they jump through to get past pi in the bible being an integer. https://www.abarim-publications.com/Bible_Commentary/1Kings7v23.html
That Kings 7=23 discussion goes off the deep end pretty quick, but the initial point seems pretty fair. So the reported measurements don’t describe a perfect circle to fractional degree of accuracy? That happens, and doesn’t necessarily tell us anything about their knowledge of geometry.
Donn Cave, well, the bible, like the quran, is supposed to be the inerrant word of god. What gets me is how the link I posted goes on, elaborately, to equivocate faith with science, noting that Gödel’s incompleteness theorem annihilates any certainty of proof of mathematical axioms. That theorem is a great demonstration of the open-mindedness of science, as opposed to the rigid dogmatism required by faith. Maybe that leads us to conclude that the cosmology that has the Earth supported on a platform atop the back of a turtle (It is turtles all the way down) is the same as the fact that in mathematics it is Gödels all the way down. Mathematics in the past has suffered delusions, such as the disavowal of zero due to vague metaphysical arguments about the incomprehensibility of nothing. Zero is here to stay, and its inverse, infinity, is as easy to understand as the number line. Carrying that over to physics is another problem entirely. Who among us has a handle on string theory, replacing zero-dimensional points with one-dimensional strings of about Planck length? The science seems to be getting closer and closer to metaphysics, for the average observer. I’ll side with science. It can make finer predictions than the prophets, though the prophets often are spot on with their dismal, negative expectations.
The problem wirh religious dolts…They are too stupid too recognise how stupid they are….and yes it is stupid, ALL THE WAY DOWN…
M27 just above:
That echoes eerily like Gödel Escher Bach by Hofstaedter, an intricate edifice of exotic esoteria.
I have that book. Ready ro read when I’m ready for it!
M27, load up with lots of beverages and Bach. It is a heavy brick full of gold and gems!
No envy for anyone trying to translate all that … but it has been done, believe it or not.
Er Indoors has a list of jobs as long as her legs that I have to do before solstice and a tongue sharper than a scalpel, no time for reading at the mo…