Paul shouldn’t get all the blame. The homophobic stuff is all before his time, in the Old Testament.
It’s clear to me that the priests of these Bronze Age herders had figured out that success was defined as having as large a tribe as possible. More warriors, more tithes, all good, so they made rules to encourage fecundity. Do Arabs and other Semites really say, “May your tribe increase” as a blessing?
Thus every man was needed to make sure that every womb was in use. I associate this with their rule that a man must marry his brother’s widow. When a man spills his sperm on the ground or with another man, that’s one less chance to get a new warrior or womb support system conceived.
If only they had been illiterate and unable to preserve their rules for herders to live by, we might not have inherited all this bigotry. The patriarchy we would probably have gotten anyways, even if it weren’t in the Bible.
Pretty much every serious problem on the planet is made worse by over-population. What the world desperately needs now is a movement to drastically curb our birth rate. Logically, contraception and homosexuality aught to be encouraged by priest and politician alike.
If only the Pope, that illustrious paragon of virtue, could see his way to a reversal in his position on these subjects.
You know what I’ve never understood? If gays are going to Hell according to these Christians, why do Christians bother being so mean and unfair to them? Isn’t it enough they’re (supposedly) going to Hell? I mean, isn’t GOD’s wrath enough, without adding the nasty, petty, ignorant wrath of the innately asshole-like human being to it? We should be nicer, the more we’re convinced someone is going to Hell, shouldn’t we? That would be more Christian of Christians, wouldn’t it?
(Sorry, I’m in a bad mood. I have a wake to go to tomorrow. I don’t love hanging around a decomposing body for hours. Am NOT looking forward to it.)
AFAIR Arabs and Middle Easterners and Anatolians have every good wishes littered with wishes of fertility and “may God/Allah/FSM grant you many children”
I agree with Carlita. I was once hired as a consultant to a government department that I obviously won’t name, and managed to get into a conversation with a *very* devout Christian of the “speaking softly and earnestly all the time and really being irritating” kind. Upon finding out that I really don’t believe in god(s), he suggested that he had some poems he might want to send me, seemingly implying that by reading them I would suddenly be persuaded of the truth of his superstition when years of philosophical and theological thought and reading material had failed.
Anyway, he really took offence when I said, “Well, you know, people who believe in god are just a bit crazy really.” He said, “So, you think I’m crazy?” To which I replied, “Well, yes.” And I later thought I had been unfair to him. Until I realised that, hang on, HE thinks that I’m going to burn in hell, for eternity, with awful, terrible anguish. FOR EVER. And HE has the gall to suggest to ME that I’M being unkind?
Has anyone noticed that aggressive “straights” and “celibates” are really tough on women, children and anyone who doesn’t delight in a dominance/ submission worldview? It seems significant that they deny our primate modified mammalian sexuality in favor of authoritarian strictures that are certainly dead ends (intended). I suspect that the abuse that one sees so often perpetrated is the manner of reproduction of the of the authoritian ideal.
BRY
carolita, you’re absolutely right. the bible (and jesus especially) has far more worrisome things to say about those of us who judge others (such as gays) than it does about homosexuality or homosexual acts. too many “christians” just wrap themselves in a quilt made up of a few select quotations from the bible and pretend it protects them against all that’s wrong in the world while giving them status, but they still rant and rave about anyone who is not similarly wrapped (or warped ;-). and they ignore so many more important things in the bible, because those things would deny them their selfish ways. i wonder if they are really in (or going to) hell as much as anyone else they seem to despise. you can’t love God while hating God’s children, and Jesus said we shouldn’t try to weed out the chaff from the wheat, but let both grow together until harvest; between those two ideals, where is there room for legitimate hostility towards gays or anyone else?
I’d just like to point out that nearly every religion depicts God as omnipotent and omniscient, and therefore not in need of the help of self-styled henchmen. So anyone with any objection to someone not living the way they live according to their particular religion should address their objections to their God, and not to their fellow humans. To their fellow humans they should be kind or at least not behave to their detriment, and obey the law of the land.
[…] The Bloggerheads and JesusandMo referrals are related to my archiving the CCTV (Christian Council for Traditional Values) Sexual Orientations Video in the recent campaign. […]
@ peterNW1: Jesus and Mo’s final lines reveal them as being not politically correct at all, no matter how much they try. (Or do you think that Mo’s last sentiment is actually acceptable???)
@carolita “nearly every religion depicts God as omnipotent and omniscient,”
Not true. ONLY the JudeoChrIslamic supposedly monotheistic religions presume there is perfection. Other religions know the is no supreme being, rather there are gods many and lords many, each with it’s own dominion. Like the forces, animal &humans in whose image the are made they have limitations and strengths pertaining to their role.
Jesus & Mo (the characters) are absurd, blinkered, and oddly very sweet. J&M (the cartoon) is brilliant: sharp, delicious, irresistible. Salman Rushdie
Jesus and Mo cartoons are wonderfully funny and true. Richard Dawkins
Jesus and Mo make the world a better place, bless their little hearts. Ophelia Benson
In a world defined by outrage and offence and liberal spinelessness, Jesus and Mo is a treasure, whose value we should never fail to recognize. Read them. Laugh. And think. Kenan Malik
The brilliant, celebrated, freaking hilarious atheist comic strip ... Greta Christina
...rays of sanity in a befuddled world. Keri Hulme
The liveliest depictions of Muhammad currently available... Malise Ruthven
J & Mo is the funniest and most consistently thought-provoking cartoon strip on the Net. In a saner world, it would run in a major newspaper. Nelson Jones, Heresy Corner
Consistently amusing, frequently thought-provoking and often heart-warming. New Humanist
Jesus & Mo is one of the most wonderful things on the internet.. JT Eberhard
Wittily captures much of the absurdity of religious apologetics. Mano Singham
I love jesusandmo.net cartoons - witty and sharp! Katha Pollitt
Often hilarious, frequently wry, these cartoons do what all the best cartoons do: they tell the truth through humour. Terry Sanderson, NSS President
...a wonderfully acid British cartoonist... Nick Cohen
I love the scrappy mockery of Jesus and Mo. Freedom of speech
includes the freedom to mock any person, any thing, any activity, and
any belief -- and J&M stands up for this unflinchingly Richard Stallman
...empowering, important and deeply progressive, not to mention hilarious... Council of Ex-Muslims
December 29, 2021
For a ridiculous propaganda video on this subject, go here:
http://www.mattwardman.com/blog/2007/03/29/sexual-orientation-regulations-demo-promotional-video/
Love it!!
I think i actually laughed out loud, not like a lol, but a real Heeh.
“I have no problem with THE GAYS.”
Paul shouldn’t get all the blame. The homophobic stuff is all before his time, in the Old Testament.
It’s clear to me that the priests of these Bronze Age herders had figured out that success was defined as having as large a tribe as possible. More warriors, more tithes, all good, so they made rules to encourage fecundity. Do Arabs and other Semites really say, “May your tribe increase” as a blessing?
Thus every man was needed to make sure that every womb was in use. I associate this with their rule that a man must marry his brother’s widow. When a man spills his sperm on the ground or with another man, that’s one less chance to get a new warrior or womb support system conceived.
If only they had been illiterate and unable to preserve their rules for herders to live by, we might not have inherited all this bigotry. The patriarchy we would probably have gotten anyways, even if it weren’t in the Bible.
Pretty much every serious problem on the planet is made worse by over-population. What the world desperately needs now is a movement to drastically curb our birth rate. Logically, contraception and homosexuality aught to be encouraged by priest and politician alike.
If only the Pope, that illustrious paragon of virtue, could see his way to a reversal in his position on these subjects.
You know what I’ve never understood? If gays are going to Hell according to these Christians, why do Christians bother being so mean and unfair to them? Isn’t it enough they’re (supposedly) going to Hell? I mean, isn’t GOD’s wrath enough, without adding the nasty, petty, ignorant wrath of the innately asshole-like human being to it? We should be nicer, the more we’re convinced someone is going to Hell, shouldn’t we? That would be more Christian of Christians, wouldn’t it?
(Sorry, I’m in a bad mood. I have a wake to go to tomorrow. I don’t love hanging around a decomposing body for hours. Am NOT looking forward to it.)
AFAIR Arabs and Middle Easterners and Anatolians have every good wishes littered with wishes of fertility and “may God/Allah/FSM grant you many children”
I agree with Carlita. I was once hired as a consultant to a government department that I obviously won’t name, and managed to get into a conversation with a *very* devout Christian of the “speaking softly and earnestly all the time and really being irritating” kind. Upon finding out that I really don’t believe in god(s), he suggested that he had some poems he might want to send me, seemingly implying that by reading them I would suddenly be persuaded of the truth of his superstition when years of philosophical and theological thought and reading material had failed.
Anyway, he really took offence when I said, “Well, you know, people who believe in god are just a bit crazy really.” He said, “So, you think I’m crazy?” To which I replied, “Well, yes.” And I later thought I had been unfair to him. Until I realised that, hang on, HE thinks that I’m going to burn in hell, for eternity, with awful, terrible anguish. FOR EVER. And HE has the gall to suggest to ME that I’M being unkind?
Rargh!
What Mark said 🙂
Carolita, it’s possible that some christians think that they can discourage homosexuality by intimidation and maybe save some souls.
Alternatively they might just be filled with hate because of fear of change, fear of anything different, or repression of their own sexuality.
Maybe we males should take it mandatorily once in the ass so that no one can bitch about homosexuality anymore.
Maybe not.
Has anyone noticed that aggressive “straights” and “celibates” are really tough on women, children and anyone who doesn’t delight in a dominance/ submission worldview? It seems significant that they deny our primate modified mammalian sexuality in favor of authoritarian strictures that are certainly dead ends (intended). I suspect that the abuse that one sees so often perpetrated is the manner of reproduction of the of the authoritian ideal.
BRY
carolita, you’re absolutely right. the bible (and jesus especially) has far more worrisome things to say about those of us who judge others (such as gays) than it does about homosexuality or homosexual acts. too many “christians” just wrap themselves in a quilt made up of a few select quotations from the bible and pretend it protects them against all that’s wrong in the world while giving them status, but they still rant and rave about anyone who is not similarly wrapped (or warped ;-). and they ignore so many more important things in the bible, because those things would deny them their selfish ways. i wonder if they are really in (or going to) hell as much as anyone else they seem to despise. you can’t love God while hating God’s children, and Jesus said we shouldn’t try to weed out the chaff from the wheat, but let both grow together until harvest; between those two ideals, where is there room for legitimate hostility towards gays or anyone else?
I’d just like to point out that nearly every religion depicts God as omnipotent and omniscient, and therefore not in need of the help of self-styled henchmen. So anyone with any objection to someone not living the way they live according to their particular religion should address their objections to their God, and not to their fellow humans. To their fellow humans they should be kind or at least not behave to their detriment, and obey the law of the land.
carolita, you are so right!!
Well said.
Live and let live.
[…] The Bloggerheads and JesusandMo referrals are related to my archiving the CCTV (Christian Council for Traditional Values) Sexual Orientations Video in the recent campaign. […]
Jesus misspelled BUTTSECTS. But he’ll claim he was mis-transcribed.
This one’s a little too smug for me. I don’t think Jesus and Mo should be so politically correct.
Mo’s line is one of the best things I’ve ever heard.
@ peterNW1: Jesus and Mo’s final lines reveal them as being not politically correct at all, no matter how much they try. (Or do you think that Mo’s last sentiment is actually acceptable???)
@carolita “nearly every religion depicts God as omnipotent and omniscient,”
Not true. ONLY the JudeoChrIslamic supposedly monotheistic religions presume there is perfection. Other religions know the is no supreme being, rather there are gods many and lords many, each with it’s own dominion. Like the forces, animal &humans in whose image the are made they have limitations and strengths pertaining to their role.