“Transgenderism/transsexualism, in contrast, claims gender – women’s oppression and sexist stereotypes – are innate, or sometimes that the body has to be altered to conform because of oppression discomfort disorder. Gender dysphoria claims that the person is wrong, not the cultural sexism, exploitation or oppression. It avows ‘change the person, not the system’!”
There are multiple problems with that statement. For me, the main one is that “transgenderism/transsexualism” isn’t a movement that claims “the person is wrong”; rather it’s individuals that claim that their own physical person is wrong. It is particular to the person, not generic to a gender.
Do such individuals have any rights? If they look (and feel) entirely of gender A, right down to the genitals, should they be required to use the public toilet for their birth gender B, or should they be required to hold their urge to pee or poop until they get home? (Note that for a trans woman, there might be physical risks in using her birth gender’s toilet, i.e. a men’s public toilet, including the risk of rape. For a trans man, if he uses his birth gender’s toilet he will frighten women who see a man. They won’t ask about his birth gender.)
These are the kind of questions that need resolving.
Do they have any rights at all? Should genital surgery be illegal? Should a person with gender dysphoria have any accomodations pertaining to that? Should we reserve the the rights of the trans gender until they’ve had bottom surgery? Or is even that insufficient for TERFs? I don’t know, I’m just asking the questions that I think ought to be asked.
Sometimes the rights of one group clash with those of another group. Those clashes ought to be resolved by polite societies. In the past, they’ve been resolved in favor of equal rights. For example, the right of American black people to drink from public water fountains was resolved in favor of black people’s rights, not racists’ hatred against black people.
The trans/TERF war is clearly more complicated than that.
There are non-trans masculine looking women, who have been kicked out of public toilets because women thought they were male:
Our government does that. Successive abusers: sorry I mean Prime Ministers, refrains have been, ‘we’re all in it together’, ‘were all in the same boat’. We’re facing difficult decisions’.Which given our current circumstance is patently not true.
Laripu, I have been in rock clubs when I was younger, where female rocker women have pulled their knickers down and backed up to urinate in the gents urinals alongside me. Because they didn’t want to queue for ages in the ladies.
I didn’t feel the need to rape them, you seem to think that the majority of men are uncontrollable rapists? I just got on with emptying my own bladder and minding my own business…
M27, I don’t think the majority of men are rapists. I think a trans woman using a men’s bathroom in the US risks great violence, including up to the possibility of rape, from a religion-besotted stupid-nut who wants to “teach her a lesson”.
An interesting topical case in Scotland today.
Isla Bryson, a transgender woman found guilty of raping two women before transitioning is not to be sent to a woman’s’ prison.
Food for thought!
I doubt anyone’s going to defend that article as a whole, or even be able to sort out what the point exactly is. I assume the relevance is simply that there’s a name here for the kind of tactics religious sects use to rope people in – or maybe not, because I don’t see that.
Religious groups notoriously capitalize on people’s desire for “fellowship” – to the extent that the word begins to have religious connotations. They don’t have to con people into collaborating in their endeavors against their will, by pretending to have common goals and whatnot – they can capitalize on a deep need to join, more or less regardless of the goals.
“Forced teaming” seems to be a way to get people to believe that the forcer is united with them in a team; the sect just offers them the opportunity to unite with.
There is a lot I don’t understand about the way that scientific facts are being superceded by hysterical lunatics declaring their devotion to “other ways of learning” and this slavish devotion to let everybody follow their own “Truth”…surely a path to complete anarchy?
“to engage in profound philosophical discussion”…
This clip is from the late, great LBJ. He referred to one end of his perineum as “bung-hole”. The other end he affectionately called his “Jumbo”.
Forced learning, indeed.
It was a bit before his time, but I wish Steve Bell, cartoonist for the Guardian, had the chance to portray LBJ in his tongue in cheeks manner, but, fortunately, another Johnson bore the brunt of his scorn. Steve Bell, buttress of the fourth estate.
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Finally, I belong!
I’m not.
The article on forced teaming (linked in the Author’s email, here: https://uncommongroundmedia.com/forced-teaming-feminism-lgb-and-trans-rights/) has some valid points, but this quote from it is incorrect, I think:
“Transgenderism/transsexualism, in contrast, claims gender – women’s oppression and sexist stereotypes – are innate, or sometimes that the body has to be altered to conform because of oppression discomfort disorder. Gender dysphoria claims that the person is wrong, not the cultural sexism, exploitation or oppression. It avows ‘change the person, not the system’!”
There are multiple problems with that statement. For me, the main one is that “transgenderism/transsexualism” isn’t a movement that claims “the person is wrong”; rather it’s individuals that claim that their own physical person is wrong. It is particular to the person, not generic to a gender.
Do such individuals have any rights? If they look (and feel) entirely of gender A, right down to the genitals, should they be required to use the public toilet for their birth gender B, or should they be required to hold their urge to pee or poop until they get home? (Note that for a trans woman, there might be physical risks in using her birth gender’s toilet, i.e. a men’s public toilet, including the risk of rape. For a trans man, if he uses his birth gender’s toilet he will frighten women who see a man. They won’t ask about his birth gender.)
These are the kind of questions that need resolving.
Do they have any rights at all? Should genital surgery be illegal? Should a person with gender dysphoria have any accomodations pertaining to that? Should we reserve the the rights of the trans gender until they’ve had bottom surgery? Or is even that insufficient for TERFs? I don’t know, I’m just asking the questions that I think ought to be asked.
Sometimes the rights of one group clash with those of another group. Those clashes ought to be resolved by polite societies. In the past, they’ve been resolved in favor of equal rights. For example, the right of American black people to drink from public water fountains was resolved in favor of black people’s rights, not racists’ hatred against black people.
The trans/TERF war is clearly more complicated than that.
There are non-trans masculine looking women, who have been kicked out of public toilets because women thought they were male:
https://www.advocate.com/business/2015/06/17/detroit-woman-kicked-out-restaurant-bathroom-looking-man-sues
https://www.good.is/articles/mcdonalds-transgender-restroom-rights
Our government does that. Successive abusers: sorry I mean Prime Ministers, refrains have been, ‘we’re all in it together’, ‘were all in the same boat’. We’re facing difficult decisions’.Which given our current circumstance is patently not true.
Laripu, I have been in rock clubs when I was younger, where female rocker women have pulled their knickers down and backed up to urinate in the gents urinals alongside me. Because they didn’t want to queue for ages in the ladies.
I didn’t feel the need to rape them, you seem to think that the majority of men are uncontrollable rapists? I just got on with emptying my own bladder and minding my own business…
M27, I don’t think the majority of men are rapists. I think a trans woman using a men’s bathroom in the US risks great violence, including up to the possibility of rape, from a religion-besotted stupid-nut who wants to “teach her a lesson”.
An interesting topical case in Scotland today.
Isla Bryson, a transgender woman found guilty of raping two women before transitioning is not to be sent to a woman’s’ prison.
Food for thought!
I doubt anyone’s going to defend that article as a whole, or even be able to sort out what the point exactly is. I assume the relevance is simply that there’s a name here for the kind of tactics religious sects use to rope people in – or maybe not, because I don’t see that.
Religious groups notoriously capitalize on people’s desire for “fellowship” – to the extent that the word begins to have religious connotations. They don’t have to con people into collaborating in their endeavors against their will, by pretending to have common goals and whatnot – they can capitalize on a deep need to join, more or less regardless of the goals.
“Forced teaming” seems to be a way to get people to believe that the forcer is united with them in a team; the sect just offers them the opportunity to unite with.
There is a lot I don’t understand about the way that scientific facts are being superceded by hysterical lunatics declaring their devotion to “other ways of learning” and this slavish devotion to let everybody follow their own “Truth”…surely a path to complete anarchy?
>>seem to think that the majority of men are uncontrollable rapists
M27 – haven’t you got the nice t-shirt? ;-D
Nice? what T’Shirt? I am wearing one with a famous quotation on at the moment…
M27, I sincerely hope you are wearing more than that Tee-shirt! (Provided you mean the one that comes to mind … )
‘Forced teaming’ – lol. They go together as naturally as – I don’t know – maybe the letters ‘L, G, B’ and ‘T’, for instance.
I am usually wearing cargo pant shorts, I cant walk in jeans or long pants, pecks my head…
Toast — Another good example would be “People of Color”.
“to engage in profound philosophical discussion”…
This clip is from the late, great LBJ. He referred to one end of his perineum as “bung-hole”. The other end he affectionately called his “Jumbo”.
https://www.facebook.com/watch/?v=866826307017136
Forced learning, indeed.
It was a bit before his time, but I wish Steve Bell, cartoonist for the Guardian, had the chance to portray LBJ in his tongue in cheeks manner, but, fortunately, another Johnson bore the brunt of his scorn. Steve Bell, buttress of the fourth estate.
Ah. Steve Bell…”Ding Dong…!”
Butt-something, undoubtedly.